Re: ESP.net 98-02 Accord Traction Bar System with Front Torque Mount Kit F/H 4 cyl Mo
Now if you were a professional driver who were consistent enough to demonstrate a repeatable change that would be something. You would also need to ensure no other variables were changed, such as alignment, temperature, humidity, and course layout. A double blind, ABA, test would also be recommended. Six one-minute auto-x runs by an amateur is hardly enough to prove anything.
No, I don't have a laser alignment machine, or a computerized frame rack with a digital measurement arm. A decent body shop will, and could (for a few $$) repeat my test which has no human variable. That is probably the route I would go if I were ESP. My simple test did show that the difference in torsional rigidity was measurably decreased with simple equipment, and can be duplicated by anyone on this forum with access to a few basic tools.
Completely agree with you. I am no AutoX pro and can not drive on the same level as the nationally competitive folks. But what I can offer is insight into how the car behaves given the new components. What I can't offer is how many seconds it will shave off your lap. Wheel hop for example was something that I could easily induce during my events. Given that there are now solid bearings holding the LCAs in place, I would imagine that I won't have any more of those problems.....but that is one thing that I can verify at my next event.
In addition, if you would kindly write up a full procedure for the experiment that you performed (college chemistry style please
), I would be more than happy to reproduce the test with both the ESP system, and the stock system. Hell, if I am feeling ambitious enough and have the time, I'll recreate the ESP bar in SolidWorks with the specifications from ESP (if they would be so kind as to provide them for me) so that I can run some simulations on the design. Recreating the OEM Honda part with be very difficult given that it has a very complex geometry and the two halves of the front part of the k-member is spot welded together (if i recall correctly). But the SolidWorks simulation should give an idea as to how structurally stable the ESP design is.
In addition, one thing that I did not even think of was the fact that the stock k-member is attached to the frame rails with bushings. The ESP bar is a solid mount to the frame rails. That will reduce the flex that you noted during your testing.
Just to get the record straight, I don't have a personal problem with you, and I always enjoy a serious engineering debate (which we really don't get here that often). I just have a problem with some of the allegations that you have sent ESPs way, without actually trying the product. Seeing as I will have both products (OEM and ESP) I can honestly and without bias run tests on both. Your concerns are valid, I just feel like there is a little tunnel vision on your end, and you are not addressing some of the points that are being brought up from the other side.
Unfortunately I have to wait for my car to get back from SpeedFactoryRacing so that I can run these tests. Before my abilities as a mechanic/tuner/engineer come into question. The only reason I am not working on the Accord for this iteration of its life is that I just moved to Seattle city from the East Coast for work, and don't have the time (because of work) or space (live in a apartment building) to put the accord together myself. That and I left my workshop and tools on the east coast
. Your setup looks simple enough, so this is something that I can do in the parking garage of my apartment complex. Like I said, give me a full procedure, and I will faithfully follow it for the OEM part and test again with the ESP setup.