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  #1  
Old 11-08-2017, 02:22 PM
SupraGuy SupraGuy is offline
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Transmission woes. (DD)

My transmission seems like it's not long for this world.

Yesterday, after driving home without incident, speeds up to 120km/h (75mph) I got back in the car, and when accelerating from a stop, the jar started to judder. If I kept the acceleration to an absolute bare minimum, I could keep it from doing it, but it really wasn't able to tolerate much at all.

It doesn't appear to matter which (forward) gear the transmission is in. It seems to be primarily at low speed/low gearing, I hadn't experienced it at speeds over 40km/h (25mph) but by then, I was being really light on the pedal.

It seemed to be a bit better this morning, and I was able to drive to work without incident, but I also stayed really easy on the pedal, much to the annoyance of some people who were behind me at the light.

I'd had other problems last spring, which seemed to be better when the weather was warmer. When coming to a stop, there would be a "clunk" as I was either nearly at a stop, or shortly after coming to a stop. Getting off of the brake and back on the gas before this "clunk" would result in something that felt kind of like a neutral drop, or suddenly dropping a clutch. As I said, it was worse in cold weather, and when the transmission was cold. Over the summer, the problem was mostly gone, and I didn't pay it much attention. It started doing it again when the temperature started going below freezing at night, and now it's cold all the time, so I've just been really careful about when/how I get back on the gas when stopping.

Automatic transmissions are not my strong suit. I'd switch to a manual if I had my choice, but since this is an inexpensive daily driver for me, I am not looking to do a whole lot with it. I'm not even sure that I want to do the work of swapping in a transmission (If that's what I need) nor do I really have the time. I'd like to avoid scrapping the car, but if the transmission is toast, that may be where I'm at.

Realizing that there seem to be no shortage of transmission issues in these cars, is there any point in looking for a wrecker transmission?
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1999 Honda Accord EX, 292,XXX kms, mostly stock.

1989 Toyota Supra, 502,XXX kms. Heavily modified, mostly dead.
1990 Toyota Supra, 190,XXX kms, project car.
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2017, 03:21 PM
Connie Connie is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

That low speed juddering was like the one-week warning for my original transmission in Connie at 344k, so pretty similar mileage as your sig shows. It got worse and rapidly became undriveable. Clutch packs were toast.

I just picked up a 98 for $350 because it needed a transmission; the previous owner JUST spent thousands having a scrapyard transmission put it. It lasted him about a month before is started slipping out of gear and banging; basically undriveable unless you stick the selector in "2". You can see my progress with it in my transmission thread.

When I drained the fluid, it looked like mud. Brown mud. I used a clean drain pan, and after emptying it into a used washer fluid bottle, the bottom of the pan was full of gold-coloured debris; some chunks a few mm in diameter.

Unless you can get your wrecker to at least give you a 90 day warranty, I wouldn't bother. I replaced Connie's with a scrapyard trans and got lucky (gonna hit 502k this evening; still shifts nice), the guy I just got the $350 car from didn't get so lucky (only made it 3k km after replacing the trans). It's really a roll of the dice. Make sure you get the TC with the trans if you decide to go this route (or spend a few hundred on a reman; just don't reuse the one that's in there).

If I were you, I'd surf kijiji for a few days and see what 6g V6 cars pop up; I got a 98 sedan with a recent rebuild for $400 this spring (with receipts from the rebuild, $2k+!). They pop up all the time around here. That's assuming that you have the space for a parts car, though.

If you decide to replace the trans, make sure you flush the cooler lines; if there's chunks of crap from the old trans in there, the first thing the new trans is going to do is suck them in and destroy itself. Compressed air first then a bottle of transmission flush; last time I bought it, was about $15. You'll also need like 7 or 8 946mL bottles of Honda DW-1 ATF. I just paid $99 for 8 quarts; since you're in Canada, you'll probably pay that price for that much as well. Also keep in mind that 98-99 transmissions are not interchangeable with 00-02 transmissions.

I hate to just say your trans is fubar, but that's almost exactly the same symptoms I had the last 2 times I've had a B7XA transmission fail.

The good news, however, is that a full rebuild kit is only a few hundred bucks. I'm not well versed in automatics either, but I may buy the overhaul manual and give it a shot myself since it's such a common issue with the 6g. Worst case, I'll learn something lol.
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2002 Accord V6 Coupe, "Connie", 503,000km
2000 Accord V6 Coupe, "Midnight", 207,000km
2000 Accord V6 Coupe, 412,000km; 1998 Accord V6 Coupe, 266,000km; 1998 Accord V6 Sedan, 278,000km

Last edited by Connie; 11-08-2017 at 03:23 PM.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:32 PM
Rusty Accord Rusty Accord is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

I agree with Connie, look in the Canadian version of Craig's List (Kinjii was it?), and see what you can find. Either a parts donor, or another car in your price range. You never know unless you look. Another thing to do is look for JDM transmissions. My son found a guy selling them for 345 US with a 30 day warranty. I had looked a year ago, and found some in Texas for around 500 US. E-bay might be another shot as well, as there was a guy from NJ selling them too. I'm sure somebody in the great north west is selling them (JDM) too. Sorry, I don't have any contacts in your area that I could direct you too, otherwise I would.
I hope it works out for you.
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1999 Accord LX sedan w/ 5speed F23A1 LEV 232K miles
Sue's 2000 Accord LX sedan AT F23A1 LEV 235K miles
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2017, 09:10 AM
Connie Connie is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

$1050 for rebuilt units with a year warranty here in the GTA.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-transmission...ationFlag=true

Here's a whole car for $250

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/s...ationFlag=true

Another one for $700; there are a bunch in this range.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ationFlag=true

I couldn't find much in Alberta, but I am sure they are around there, too.
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2002 Accord V6 Coupe, "Connie", 503,000km
2000 Accord V6 Coupe, "Midnight", 207,000km
2000 Accord V6 Coupe, 412,000km; 1998 Accord V6 Coupe, 266,000km; 1998 Accord V6 Sedan, 278,000km
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2017, 12:51 PM
SupraGuy SupraGuy is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

Well, much as I do like the car, I don't really have much of an attachment to it, nor to the Accord in general. (The car which I do have an attachment to should be obvious, LOL) This one has a fair amount of body damage, so it's not going to be worth a lot of cash. I probably wouldn't mind the $200 or so for a wrecker transmission, even with another $100 or so for fluid.

I guess I'm looking for a cheap used car, then.

I'm kind of pissed off that it chose right after I bought a brand new set of tires for it to do this though. Well, if I get it hauled away, maybe I'll see if I can sell the rims/tires separately.
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1999 Honda Accord EX, 292,XXX kms, mostly stock.

1989 Toyota Supra, 502,XXX kms. Heavily modified, mostly dead.
1990 Toyota Supra, 190,XXX kms, project car.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2017, 04:06 PM
Connie Connie is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

I'm sure you can; last few times I've wanted tires off a car I'm scrapping they let me take them off and brought a flatbed. You'll probably get another $100 if you drive it there yourself, have someone follow you, take off the wheels when you get there and then bring them home yourself.

Unless you have CAA, lol, then they should take it to the wrecker for free for ya.

Good luck with the Supra!

Know anyone who'd be interested in a RHD RX7? lol
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2002 Accord V6 Coupe, "Connie", 503,000km
2000 Accord V6 Coupe, "Midnight", 207,000km
2000 Accord V6 Coupe, 412,000km; 1998 Accord V6 Coupe, 266,000km; 1998 Accord V6 Sedan, 278,000km
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:15 PM
Rusty Accord Rusty Accord is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
Well, much as I do like the car, I don't really have much of an attachment to it, nor to the Accord in general. (The car which I do have an attachment to should be obvious, LOL) This one has a fair amount of body damage, so it's not going to be worth a lot of cash. I probably wouldn't mind the $200 or so for a wrecker transmission, even with another $100 or so for fluid.

I guess I'm looking for a cheap used car, then.

I'm kind of pissed off that it chose right after I bought a brand new set of tires for it to do this though. Well, if I get it hauled away, maybe I'll see if I can sell the rims/tires separately.
Sounds like a cheap Camry is in your future.
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Bob 1997 Accord LX sedan w/ 5 speed F22b2 235K miles currently for sale
1999 Accord LX sedan w/ 5speed F23A1 LEV 232K miles
Sue's 2000 Accord LX sedan AT F23A1 LEV 235K miles
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:38 PM
SupraGuy SupraGuy is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

Looking at the SM for troubleshooting

"Vehicle moves in [2] and [R] but not in [D4], [D3], or [1] position"

This seems to be the symptom that I am experiencing. It did judder in the "does not move" gears, but does not any longer.
  1. 1st accumulator defective
  2. 1st gears worn or damaged
  3. 1st clutch defective
  • inspect 1 clutch pressure.
  • Inspect the secondary shaft and 1st/2nd clutch assembly for wear and damage.
  • Inspect the clutch piston and O rings. Check the spring retainer for wear and damage. Inspect the clutch end plate-to-top disc clearance. If the clearance is out of tolerance, inspect the clutch discs and plates for wear and damage. If the discs and plates are worn of damaged, replace them as a set. If they are OK, adjust the clutch end plate clearance.
Pretty sure that I'm looking at "1st clutch damaged" at this point. I will maybe keep the transmission that's in it, and see if I can repair the thing. Even if the wrecker transmission doesn't pan out, I may be able to get a running car out of it yet. Well, I've never tried a repair of an automatic transmission before, so it's more likely that I'll just have the car in the yard for an extra year.

Still contemplating the wrecker transmission route. If I get one that's been scrapped for body damage, it was probably at least running when it got hit. It's a crap shoot for sure, but still cheaper than another car, which may end up with its own set of serious problems and non-driveability.

In the meantime, I've got access to another car that I can borrow, just as soon as I replace a wheel bearing.
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1999 Honda Accord EX, 292,XXX kms, mostly stock.

1989 Toyota Supra, 502,XXX kms. Heavily modified, mostly dead.
1990 Toyota Supra, 190,XXX kms, project car.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:30 PM
Rusty Accord Rusty Accord is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
Looking at the SM for troubleshooting

"Vehicle moves in [2] and [R] but not in [D4], [D3], or [1] position"

This seems to be the symptom that I am experiencing. It did judder in the "does not move" gears, but does not any longer.
  1. 1st accumulator defective
  2. 1st gears worn or damaged
  3. 1st clutch defective
  • inspect 1 clutch pressure.
  • Inspect the secondary shaft and 1st/2nd clutch assembly for wear and damage.
  • Inspect the clutch piston and O rings. Check the spring retainer for wear and damage. Inspect the clutch end plate-to-top disc clearance. If the clearance is out of tolerance, inspect the clutch discs and plates for wear and damage. If the discs and plates are worn of damaged, replace them as a set. If they are OK, adjust the clutch end plate clearance.
Pretty sure that I'm looking at "1st clutch damaged" at this point. I will maybe keep the transmission that's in it, and see if I can repair the thing. Even if the wrecker transmission doesn't pan out, I may be able to get a running car out of it yet. Well, I've never tried a repair of an automatic transmission before, so it's more likely that I'll just have the car in the yard for an extra year.

Still contemplating the wrecker transmission route. If I get one that's been scrapped for body damage, it was probably at least running when it got hit. It's a crap shoot for sure, but still cheaper than another car, which may end up with its own set of serious problems and non-driveability.

In the meantime, I've got access to another car that I can borrow, just as soon as I replace a wheel bearing.
I'd rather replace a wheel bearing than a trans. But, it'll buy you time, and keep your Supra out of the weather (snow and ice), where it could get damaged.
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Bob 1997 Accord LX sedan w/ 5 speed F22b2 235K miles currently for sale
1999 Accord LX sedan w/ 5speed F23A1 LEV 232K miles
Sue's 2000 Accord LX sedan AT F23A1 LEV 235K miles
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:48 PM
SupraGuy SupraGuy is offline
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Re: Transmission woes. (DD)

It's often been said that the cheapest car to own is the car you own. Given that I own this one, I'll be repairing it.

The good news so far though is that so long as I start off in [2], the car seems to be okay. So long as second gear doesn't die, at least I can drive it.

My decision is based off of the uncertainty that another car with a cost of less than $1,000 brings with it, namely the probability that there are other problems just waiting to (or have already come to) surface. I've had some pretty good luck with low dollar used cars, but most of them needed something before they were road worthy in terms of parts and labour. In this case, I know what it needs, and I have a pretty good handle on the condition of the rest of the vehicle. It's not great, but it's manageable.

I'm curious about the difference between the '98-'99 transmission, and the '00-'02 one. I see that they're different, and there are some differences pointed out in the FSM, but not with the electronics. I don't seem to have found any differences in how it connects into the car, or connects to the electronics. Axles, shift linkage, and bolt mounting all seem to be described the same, just some differences with parts that need to be moved to drop the transmission.

If they did something better with the newer transmissions, it might be worth investigating, but I don't think that I'll take the chance. I'll grab a transmission from one of the same year if there's a good candidate, or from a '98 if that one seems better. I still think I'm probably okay if I stick to cars that look like they were scrapped from being hit.
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1989 Toyota Supra, 502,XXX kms. Heavily modified, mostly dead.
1990 Toyota Supra, 190,XXX kms, project car.
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