H22 Swap

Drift

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
1,333
Reaction score
22
Location
Mass
09-15-2006, 02:49 PM


Drift said:
You had no problems because you used an ECU from an accord. The prelude immobilizer system is entirely different. When they first came out they had a Red Key. This Red key was not be used but was to stay in a little plastic case, and only used
for programing. If the red key was lost, then to get the immobilizer system to program properly, you have yo replace the ECU and immobilizer, (and ignition switch) in order for things to actually work.




And yes. About $4-5k.




11-18-2006, 04:16 PM

Drift said:
The motor was blown at the track. 30psi in cyl #3.

Details and rebuild pics to come. . .



11-18-2006, 07:17 PM

Drift said:
Alex already pulled the car into the shop to do the comp test and its waiting in a bay for me to start the tear down. Ill be pulling the motor tomorrow and getting as much done as I can. This really wont have been as
big a deal had I not just bought the Galant. Im pretty much broke right now, and Ill probably have to put most of this on the credit card and get raped later down the road to the tune of 19%. (I need to switch cards,
thats another story for another day.)

I guess and hour and a half of 7k rpms will kill a ring of two, I had to learn the hard way.


11-18-2006, 08:06 PM

BlackCurrantKord said:
Sucks man. Were you spraying or just revving too high?

19%? Geez....mine's 5%
I dont have the kit on this motor, its NA. With my gear box, 90% of Lime Rock is the very top of 3rd gear.



The only time I was shifting was entering the main straight into 4th gear, (WOT all the way down topping out at about 120ish) and back into 3rd into the Big Bend. (The track runs clockwise in this picture)

So revs were high for a long time and I saw the limiter a few times. Going into the straight, the Diving Turn, (before the straight) I often found myself having to shift in middle of the the turn.

I go more into detail later when I make a thread about my track day with pics and ****.

I thought this was funny. I guess Ive been saying this for years and hadn't even realized it! Notice the date, the pic in the sig was taken at the track in August 09. The track is addictive, I just keep coming back for more.

truelies.jpg

(Post date is from 2006)
 
Last edited:

Drift

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
1,333
Reaction score
22
Location
Mass
11-20-2006, 09:24 PM

I pulled the motor out yesterday while I was at the the shop.

DSC00113.jpg

DSC00112.jpg

DSC00111.jpg


Up onto the engine stand.

DSC00114.jpg

DSC00115.jpg



the WRX's to both sides of my car are getting new gear sets. Apparently the subarus have a glass gearbox.
DSC00116.jpg



I pulled off the exhaust manifold and cylinder #3 shed a tear of oil in to give a hint as to what lay ahead.

DSC00117.jpg

DSC00118.jpg



Today I pulled the head off the motor to examine the extend of the damage. I figured I was already in it for at least $500-700 already. . . Until I saw this:

DSC00119.jpg

DSC00120.jpg

DSC00121.jpg

DSC00122.jpg




The piston melted a bit and scored the cylinder wall. . . Whoops. And since the walls of the H22 are a fibrous aluminum and cannot be machined, Id have to re sleeve it. Sleeves are between $300 and $500, and then to have them
pressed in and machined, add another $500,
Plus Pistons, Rings Bearing etc, Another $600.

It all added up pretty quick. So I made a quick call To Steve at www.Hmotorsonline.com and ordered up another complete H22a long block. I talked him down to removing the distributor and take off $150. So with shipping,
I paid $1285 for the motor. And that will pretty much drop right in.

A couple pics of the head:

DSC00123.jpg

DSC00124.jpg


You can see the little specs of detonation on both the piston and valves. As soon as the oil ring goes its common to see detonation in the fouled cylinder.


A couple pics of the intake manifold:
DSC00125.jpg

DSC00126.jpg



You can see the pools of oil in each runner.


Im going to try to sell as much as I can to recoup some money on this. It really couldnt have come at a worse time. If I hand tjust bought the galant, it would have been alright, but that car cleaned me out. All of this is going on the credit card. So before you guys go crazy making suggestion about a crazy builds, I just dont have the money.
And since the Accord is going to be a daily driver only now, I dont plan on modding it any more, just maintenance, like swapping motors :rolleyes:

Click to see vids of the course that destroyed the motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHBYe0fW58
 

Drift

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
1,333
Reaction score
22
Location
Mass
11-20-2006, 10:31 PM

evil_jweller said:
you cant bore the cyls at all? I thought you could go 25 over on them. I knew they had the nikasil cyl liners but I thought that just became an issue with aftermarket forged pistons.


So what do you think happened, rings went and blowby caused detonation, making the problem worse?
Its hard to say which came first, the detonation or the blow-by. But before I fixed the wiring there was quite a bit of detonation. So that could have really stressed the rings. And then the track days and general abuse didnt help.
I think it was a slow process put in fast forward by the excessive revs the engine saw on that course. It may have been the ignition breaking up at high, heavy loads. I saw a bit of that on the dyno graph. Another instructor mentioned that he saw a bit of
excessive smoke going up the uphill right before the motor blow, (two turns later on the straight.)

And as far as the rebuild, I would have also had to settle for USDM OEM pistons, since I cant afford anything else. And those have a smaller dish and dont come over sized. If the damage werent so severe, I may be been able to hit it up with the ball hone
or even a rigid hone, but it catches the finger nail a bit, so there are some deep grooves there.



11-23-2006, 09:32 AM

Shaggs2Dope said:
that blows so hard man. your car is one of my favs. and the scoobs have super glass trannys. it was the first problem found at the iclub.com place a while back. sucks since its such a nice car.

losing an h22 always sucks. was so hard to say goodbye to the hatch. thats an expensive week for you bro. you have any alt. transportation
Thanks man, that means a lot coming from an OG. The car will be back in effect, with an new H22a, soon enough.

It has been an expensive week for sure! Since I paid $175 to get onto the track in the first place, and then $240 for the tow home (plus tolls each way and I $20 I gave the driver for food and ****, that makes it $277) And then the new motor, $1300.
That brings my weekend to a a grand total of $1752. Thats without gas and food too.

Ive been bumming rides and borrowing the parents cars for the past few days. Ive had off of work all week any way, so it hasnt been to bad.




12-05-2006, 08:16 AM

The motor came in yesterday. I was able to leave work early because it was so slow, and managed to get some work done on it. There was more work than I was expected to do. The motor looks good, it wasnt as clean as the first one though. And it seems to be a few years older too, I think its a '91 actually.

I got there at about 3:30pm and managed to strip off the old harness and a lot of the unnecessary bracketry. Then I moved onto the manifolds. Im using both IM and EM from the first motor because thats how the car was setup up. The Exhaust manifold was customer modified to fit the down pipe I was forced to use,
and the Intake manifold I had spent almost and hour cleaning all the oil and **** out of. . . Also, the RC injectors were already on the older IM with some custom tubing I had used for the IACV and ****. So After I got those both on, I started the internal work. Really it was just swapping the cams over to the
type S cams so I can avoid having to re-tune when this is done.

Im glad I bought another timing belt and balance belt, the one that came with it was original and had started to crack from age. I also swapped the water pump from the first motor, as it is only about 10k miles old. The h23 manual timing belt tensioner is on too.

I put the new oil filter on, and swapped the oil pressure senders over and will be replacing the fluids after the motor goes into the car.

Sorry about the sparaticness of this post, Im just listing things as I remember them.

I think Ill be putting the motor in on thursday, it being my first day off. And there should be no reason for the car not to be running once its in. I think I have everything I need.



12-23-2006, 10:03 PM

The car has been done for a couple of weeks now. I am just now getting around to taking pics of its completion and of its current, winter state. The re-plant went flawlessly. The motor dropped right in, I plugged everything in and she fired right up. No CELs or anything, and a nice smooth idle. Ive been daily
driving it for a couple weeks now and the only issue that Ive been facing is that there isnt much heat inside the car. Ive been watching the temp gauge like a hawk and there is nothing out fo the ordinary. Ive also bled the system multiple times so Im fairly confident that there is no air in the system. Which
leads me to believe that that the water valve is ****ed up. Its very close to the rear motor mount, and was definitely in the way when trying to thread the rear bolt. I think it got a little too tweaked. Oh well, its still like 50 degrees in MA right now, so heat isnt really necessary.

On to the pics:
H22a v.2
IMG_0021.jpg



I need to get some more engine shots, but it really just looks the same as it did before.


And some pics of it in the 06-07 winter mode:
DSC00010-1.jpg

DSC00009-1.jpg

DSC00008-1.jpg




And the wheels that I traded Skabone my ZEX kit for:
DSC00013.jpg


Wrapped in a brand new set of Winterforce snow tires. Look how little clearance there is between the wheel and the bigger brakes. Its about .5cm, no exaggeration.
__________________
 

Drift

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
1,333
Reaction score
22
Location
Mass
04-07-2007, 06:08 AM

Answering some random question about a previous picture
The JDM engines use an internal ignition coil, whereas the USDM engines use an external ignition coil. So finding an ignition cap is a bit trickier in the US if you have a JDM engine. But from what I understand, I can use the cap from a USDM 2000 Civic Si.




12-29-2008, 08:18 AM

cvjoint said:
I read though all 32 pages of this thread! You guys can sure endure some serious troubleshooting. So I just put a down payment for an H22a swap the other week. As much as I like diy spirit, I'm busy with school and don't own a garage or tools to make this happen on my own.

Could you guys give me pointers on what to look for when I pick up my car? I'm paying for labor and parts and want to make sure it runs as trouble free as the f23. I am getting a JDM H22a '95, P72 ECU, switch to OBD1 using a jumper harness, PS stays (paid extra for custom line), so does A/C,
new NGK wires and plugs. I will be using a newer 30k mille f23 tranny I sourced from the midwest, and brand new stock clutch system.

From what I read here I am concerned about the fans working, wiring condition, custom engine mount,cel codes. How do I check all these and what else is there to worry about?

Thanks ahead of time!

The fans should work with a p72. But you are correct for being concerned that they do, its very important. As for other things, no CELs, No exhaust leaks, no having the motor bang around the engine bay do to ****ty mounts. The rest depends on the tune. Make sure VTE activates at all. (Stock it comes in around 5500 rpm).

Its going do be a bit different with the f23 tranny, but it will work.



12-29-2008, 02:54 PM

cvjoint said:
I live in So. Cali. I need it to cool down properly, another reason why I backed up from my turbo build. The P72 is one of the few that controls the butterflies too right? I have no idea what those do, but Honda thinks they are good

Oh no, 5500rpm that is a little high for my taste, I though it was 4500rpm for not type R, or type S motors. My long gears will drop me out of Vtec if I don't hit redline. What was the engagement point on our f23 anyways, I felt the whole engine turns on at 2400rpm and goes more or less flat from there.

Sorry about the noob questions, and here comes another one: what is there to tune? I thought the P72 can only retard timing. I'm not getting Hondata or anything, the guy said it would be very similar to stock = no tunning involved.

The butterflies are to control the dual intake manifold runners. One set of runners is long and skinny for low-end torque, the others are short and fat for high-end torque. Im not suing them currently. I removed the bracket, removed the butterflies and weled up the shaft hole. The car still makes great torque, although I am curious to see what happens with the butterflies installed.

If you have your p72 socketed for tuning, then you you can change pretty much everything using Crome. You can change the VTEC engagement rpm, you can turn off o2 sensors and knock sensors. You can change rev limiters and add launch control, the possiblities are ample. And Yes, the p72 is the only ECU besides the p13 that can run the secondary butterflies.




12-29-2008, 04:50 PM

cvjoint said:
My tuner has everything but the ECU in, so I can drop it off whenever to start on it. Unfortunately this week only has a few work days so I might just drop it off after new years or during the weekend.

I'm definitely going to chip the computer at some point. Preferably after I have the whole exhaust finished. Lowering the VTEC is deff. on my list now. Are those sensors you mentioned emissions related only or do they monitor engine health too? I'm not exactly sure if I would enjoy launch control, I like it a bit spartan. With the ACT clutch in I used to launch the f23 at 5 rpm and it was a lot of fun.

If you plan on not running the o2 sensor, it will be in open loop at all times and will not look at the o2 to correct the fuel trims. I still get about 30mpg on the highway(provided I dont drive like an asshole) with my car in open loop all the time. The knock sensor is used to detect knock and when knock is heard the ECU will pull timing. Its nice to have, but not essential. Im running a p28 and it has no provisions for a knock sensor. So Im running no knock sensor.
You're going to want to tune the car fairly soon after getting the car running. The map for the b18 is very different from a map for an h22. A custom tune is the way to go.





12-29-2008, 09:50 PM

cvjoint said:
I've grown kinda scared of the piston rings giving out on the H22s. You seem to have blown them under more or less regular use, that's frightening. I don't think I will have the balls to take it over 7k rpm. I'm pretty excited about these runners myself, and the sporty VTEC!

Regular use? It was a track day! It was 3hr of the hardest driving the car has ever seen, couple with bad gas at the track. I bought "93" octane at the track in October in CT. No one uses 93 octane at the track, so it sights and goes stale. As it does the octane rating drops and its resistance to engine knock deteriorates.

Where did you source the motor from? Unless it was from Osaka motors you should be able to drop it in and beat the piss out of it for at least 50k miles.



12-29-2008, 10:15 PM

cvjoint said:
I want to freeway drive it for 300 miles before I hit anywhere near 7k rpm. So I'm overreacting about the rings?

Seriously? The motor isnt fresh. Its a used motor. It probably has somewhere between 40k-80k miles. I'd drive the piss out of right off the bat. Id want to know the it could handle the beating. It will.

And depending on the mileage, yes, you are over reacting about the rings.

**Also, for the record: I melted a piston, the rings were fine.
DSC00121.jpg

All those little silver specks are detonation.
 

9450erick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Posts
1,000
Reaction score
6
Location
los angeles
:eek:Daaaaammmmmeee!!!!!!!!!!
i heard sticky from a mile away.
im definatly doin it now
ur my savior:omgbd:
 

TheHunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Posts
2,063
Reaction score
10
Location
SoCal, Fullerton
Wooooow excellent job man. I'm happy you did this write-up. It'll answer so many questions for those looking into an H22 swap!
 

Drift

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
1,333
Reaction score
22
Location
Mass
Thanks guys. I literally took me about 5.5hrs to do. I hope people find it useful.
 
Back
Top