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Old 06-13-2018, 05:05 PM
determinasian determinasian is offline
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Smile Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

Hi everyone, I have a 1999 Accord LX with the F23A4 ULEV engine in California and an automatic transmission. I first noticed that my oil and coolant were mixing (looks like milk coffee) when I took off the radiator cap to check the coolant levels due to overheating. I went to the dealership and they said I have a cracked block, so I bought a black valve cover F23A engine with ~46,000 miles on it from HMotorsOnline and I'm trying to replace the engine. This is my first time attempting something like this; I've only ever changed my oil.

I'm trying to determine which new parts I need to buy, and these are what I have so far:

1. New radiator, radiator cap, and radiator hoses (because I don't want any of the old oily coolant in my new engine; should I simply flush my current radiator out instead? Also, how do I flush the heater system? There was some oily coolant mixture in the heater hose when I removed it)

2. New water pump (Is this necessary?)

3. New spark plugs

4. New timing belt (Might as well replace it while the new engine's already out and easy to work with?)

5. Lots of Honda Coolant Type 2 (Should I stick with Honda's coolant? Or just use whatever green coolant thing?)

6. Honda ATF DW-1 (Should be able to replace the old ATF-Z1 with DW-1 right? Can I mix the two since I won't be able to get all of the old ATF-Z1 out?)

Also, according to Steve at HMO, all I need to do to make the new engine equivalent to my current ULEV engine is to reuse my current intake manifold, distributor, and valve cover. Is that it? Does the current exhaust manifold need to be reused as well because of the different sensor for ULEV? Does the valve cover really have to get swapped out? I like the new black valve cover and black exhaust manifold heat shield and it would be nice to be able to keep them.

I'm also having a difficult time removing the automatic transmission fluid drain plug; how hard should I be going at it with an ~18" breaker bar? I was watching a video on removing it and the guy was kicking his breaker bar to get it open. Some comments for that video said to use my floor jack to push the breaker bar. Would this be harmful somehow?

Not sure if this should go in this subforum or the DIY subforum.

Thanks for your guys' time.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:07 PM
SupraGuy SupraGuy is offline
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Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

Well, if you are replacing the timing belt, I am given to understand that replacing the water pump at the same time is generally recommended. Replacing the timing belt is something that I would probably generally do if I have the engine out, particularly an interference engine, which is the majority of Hondas.

You can (And should!) flush the cooling system still remaining int he car. If the heater core is still good, you can do so by connecting a hose to the coolant line and flushing it with plenty of fresh water. If you are concerned about potential debris in the cooling system, you can flush it backwards, too. This isn't hard to do with the engine out of the car. You must make sure that any valves are fully open when you do this. It shouldn't be necessary to remove the heater core.

If your radiator is good, I see no reason to replace it unless you have a need for an upgrade, such as additional thermal load (Such as a turbocharger or supercharger, which will make more heat as it makes more power.)

For choice of coolant, so long as your coolant is compatible with aluminum cylinder heads, it ought to be fine. I believe that it is more important to make sure that the cooling system is regularly maintained than which coolant you use. Coolant doesn't only prevent freezing, it also serves as a lubricant for various valves as well as the water pump, and as an anti-corrosion agent in the engine block and cylinder head. These agents have a limited life span, while the antifreeze properties will last forever.

Those drain plugs can be a stone *****. So long as you don't break your mounts, you're unlikely to do any damage to anything important putting some torque on them, but you're going to want to make sure that you don't wreck the plug. (The nub on your ratchet or torque bar is probably more likely to get twisted off, actually.) Go to town.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:25 AM
Eclipse99fwb Eclipse99fwb is offline
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Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

When you do the timing belt replace the balance shaft belt at the same time along with install the guard (there is a tsb on it cant remember what number) prevents the balance shaft pulley seal from popping out. Also replace as many seals as possible alot easier to do with the motor out.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:51 PM
determinasian determinasian is offline
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Cool Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
Well, if you are replacing the timing belt, I am given to understand that replacing the water pump at the same time is generally recommended. Replacing the timing belt is something that I would probably generally do if I have the engine out, particularly an interference engine, which is the majority of Hondas.
Originally Posted by Eclipse99fwb View Post
When you do the timing belt replace the balance shaft belt at the same time ...
I bought a timing belt kit on Amazon that includes a timing belt, a balance shaft belt, a timing belt tensioner, a balance shaft belt tensioner, a camshaft front seal, a crankshaft front seal, a water pump and water pump seal, a valve cover gasket, 4 spark plug tube seals, and 5 grommets (not sure what these last ones are for). That's from the description on the Amazon page that I can't link to because I need to be a member for at least a week, apparently. Are these enough? Should I replace all of the old parts with the new aftermarket parts in this kit while I'm at it?

Originally Posted by Eclipse99fwb View Post
Also replace as many seals as possible alot easier to do with the motor out.
Which seals are you talking about? Are the ones I've listed above enough? I'm new to all of this so I'm not sure what I should and shouldn't replace.

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
You can (And should!) flush the cooling system still remaining in the car. If the heater core is still good, you can do so by connecting a hose to the coolant line and flushing it with plenty of fresh water. If you are concerned about potential debris in the cooling system, you can flush it backwards, too. This isn't hard to do with the engine out of the car. You must make sure that any valves are fully open when you do this. It shouldn't be necessary to remove the heater core.
If I understand correctly, I should flush my radiator and heater core by connecting a hose and blasting them with water. Would the minerals and other contaminants in water from a garden hose make the system rust? Or is it alright since it's such a short duration of time spent flushing before new coolant goes in? I also have a pressure washer. Would it be useful for this? I don't know if the rubber hoses would hold up.

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
If your radiator is good, I see no reason to replace it unless you have a need for an upgrade, such as additional thermal load (Such as a turbocharger or supercharger, which will make more heat as it makes more power.)
A simple flush it is then. Should I get one of the radiator cleaning solutions that supposedly degrease? I'm pretty sure I have oil floating around inside my radiator somewhere because of the cracked block.

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
For choice of coolant, so long as your coolant is compatible with aluminum cylinder heads, it ought to be fine.
I'll go with whatever's cheaper then. Is the green Prestone stuff alright?

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
Those drain plugs can be a stone *****. ... Go to town.
That ATF drain plug along with the rusted exhaust manifold/downpipe bolts were the worst things to get out so far. Waiting on my ball joint separator tool to come in on Saturday before I can keep going with getting the old engine out.

Originally Posted by Eclipse99fwb View Post
... along with install the guard (there is a tsb on it cant remember what number) prevents the balance shaft pulley seal from popping out.
Is it TSB 00-073? It seems to be for 5th gen Accords, but if so, would it be this part number: 06923-P0A-306 for the 6th gen Accord as well?

Thanks again for the help, guys. Not sure if this is the proper way to quote things to address them one at a time.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:49 PM
Eclipse99fwb Eclipse99fwb is offline
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Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

Yep those seals are correct, ill have to double check the part number for the tsb it should be the same though. Good to see your doing it right, you will get a long life from the f23 this way.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:22 AM
determinasian determinasian is offline
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Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

New problem: I can't get the axle nut fully unbent. Watched a few videos, people just stuck in a flathead screwdriver and hit the screwdriver from the back with a hammer to straighten out the nut. Is this the only way to do it? It doesn't seem to work properly for me. Got it to a state where it basically looks like it's straight enough, then my friend and I tried to use a breaker bar on the axle nut and the breaker bar snapped (probably because we put like 300 Nm on the thing). According to the factory service manual, it should be tightened to 245 Nm, so 300 Nm sounds like it should be enough.

What's going on with this nut? Could it be rusted on really badly somehow? Should I try to get some penetrating oil on it and try again? Am I forgetting something?

Thanks.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:10 PM
SupraGuy SupraGuy is offline
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Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

Even if you go to a pro shop, they'll flush the cooling system with tap water. It won't be particularly harmful because it's a short period of time, and there aren't going to be huge temperature variations. Lots of places will even use tap water to cut the coolant with. For a stock engine in a daily driver, I'd probably be okay with that, and use a de-scaler when it's time to flush the system. The mineral content in most city potable water supplies is generally low enough not to cause issues in an engine cooling system that uses about 6-8 liters every 2 years, and your coolant will have enough anti-corrosion and anti-scaling additives to be more than good with it.

It's not minerals in water that cause corrosion, it's oxygen. If your water has been exposed to air, it will have oxygen. After going through a few heat cycles in the cooling system, most of this oxygen will be purged from the anti-corrosion agents in the coolant. Even distilled water will have this as an issue.
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1990 Toyota Supra, 190,XXX kms, project car.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:50 AM
determinasian determinasian is offline
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Re: Replacing F23A4 with F23A?. Any new parts I need? + Can't remove AT drain plug

Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
Even if you go to a pro shop, they'll flush the cooling system with tap water. It won't be particularly harmful because it's a short period of time, and there aren't going to be huge temperature variations. Lots of places will even use tap water to cut the coolant with. For a stock engine in a daily driver, I'd probably be okay with that, and use a de-scaler when it's time to flush the system. The mineral content in most city potable water supplies is generally low enough not to cause issues in an engine cooling system that uses about 6-8 liters every 2 years, and your coolant will have enough anti-corrosion and anti-scaling additives to be more than good with it.

It's not minerals in water that cause corrosion, it's oxygen. If your water has been exposed to air, it will have oxygen. After going through a few heat cycles in the cooling system, most of this oxygen will be purged from the anti-corrosion agents in the coolant. Even distilled water will have this as an issue.
Gotcha. Thanks, followed what you said.

Not sure if I should continue this thread because the title is off, but the new engine is in, all fluids are in, the old battery won't hold a charge, and the engine starts. There was no check engine light and no codes were thrown on a Bluetooth OBD2 reader connected to the Torque Pro app. However, there were a few things I'm sketched out about:

The engine starts, but the idle surges for about 5 seconds before it gets on about 1000-1500 RPM for the cold start. Is that fine?

A bolt between the j-pipe and the exhaust manifold broke, and now there's only a single nut (attached to a welded-on bolt on the header) at the interface between the j-pipe and the exhaust manifold. Would it be appropriate to assume that this is what's causing a lot of rattling when the engine's on?

A lot of smoke comes out of the exhaust and also what I assume is the leak between the j-pipe and the exhaust manifold due to the single nut holding them together. Is this normal for a first start? For context, when I had the old engine in with the cracked block, there was also a lot of smoke coming out of the exhaust. Is it safe to assume that it's just clearing out whatever was stuck in my exhaust before?

Also, I drained the old gas out since it has been sitting for about 10 or 11 months and put in 2.5 new gallons of gas. The low gas indicator is on and the gas meter is barely above the completely empty tick. Is it normal for 2.5 gallons to count as empty?

Is there anything else I should watch out for with a newly-installed engine? This is my first time doing an engine swap (coming from barely knowing how to change my oil) so I'm afraid I'm missing something.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.
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