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  #31  
Old 12-30-2010, 11:11 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

Originally Posted by hotaccord243 View Post
ha-ha. Trust me, i'm not remotely close to an expert either... but:

Well mainly i was speaking in regards to the stock f23 and f series motor. Most of you know that the ringlands (piston rings) are the weakest link in our motors. Technically you can upgrade those and be pushing more boost on a near stock motor.

Also, it is one of very few (a few D series and the F series) of the SOHC variety. That is a key factor in flow vs. the DOHC that most honda motors come in.

The F series stock sleeve inserts, and internals are more than capable of holding larger amount of boosts but then again you run into the ringlands which are very touchy to boost. Once you wreck one of those, it's basically a chain reaction to damage the internals of the motor. For that very reason, the tune needs to be just right for someone to be pushing more than 7-9psi on a stock block/head.

With that being said you need to have COMPLETE control of the motor while tuning. As we have seen with not only myself, but RussianRed, and a few others on the site have gone through a few motors to get it right.....

That is why a AFC/AVC/piggy back/etc. does NOT WORK for tuning a large amount of boost on a stock block/head. Not only that but the correct injectors, fuel pump, MAP sensor, etc. need to be implemented into the motor with complete control. Yes, the piggy back systems do have control over these but not as much as is needed for what the OP is doing.

I don't know much about chipped ecu's I.E. the p28. I have seen some F series run a chipped p28 or similar running chrome/hondata/etc. that have worked just fine. but needs a superior tuner to know exactly what he is doing. On top of that i feel that it doesn't give you enough tuning capabilities as compared to a full standalone will give you for that amount of boost on a stock block.....reliably and for a lengthened period of time.

Hope that gives a little bit of insight.
nice, none of that applies to me since I've already upgraded all those necessary parts well other then the SOHC part haha
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  #32  
Old 12-31-2010, 03:31 AM
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Arrow Re: F23a1 turbo build

Same here, but I think that the only part that applies to us is the fickleness of the F23A1 when tuning and this is partly due to the flow restriction on the SOHC head, and restrictive properties of some engine management systems (P28 [<CROME>, eCtune, uberdata] which contain weaker capabilities versus S300 or AEM EMS which would be the optimal choices). This is why there is NO room for error and any small imbalance during tuning ruins everything, unless you have built internals. Built blocks are a different story - please correct me if I am wrong Devin, or elaborate if needed.

Last edited by Russianred; 12-31-2010 at 03:44 AM.
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  #33  
Old 12-31-2010, 12:06 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

Originally Posted by x5carl3tMurd3rx View Post
nice, none of that applies to me since I've already upgraded all those necessary parts well other then the SOHC part haha
Well it applies to ALL F series builds due to the SOHC, a turbo setup, or anything needs to have a good tuning program and good tuner.


Originally Posted by Russianred
Same here, but I think that the only part that applies to us is the fickleness of the F23A1 when tuning and this is partly due to the flow restriction on the SOHC head, and restrictive properties of some engine management systems (P28 [<CROME>, eCtune, uberdata] which contain weaker capabilities versus S300 or AEM EMS which would be the optimal choices). This is why there is NO room for error and any small imbalance during tuning ruins everything, unless you have built internals. Built blocks are a different story - please correct me if I am wrong Devin, or elaborate if needed.
The SOHC does limit us on flow capabilities. But in my opinion, especially when tuning a stock block/head you need to have full control of your motor I.E. s300 or AEM. You just can't half a** something like that or it will be a disaster.

Built internals are a different story, they can handle alot more. But either way built internals or stock block its the same issue. if you have a built motor, you want to protect your investment with something that allows full control of your motor once again with a knowledgable tuner. So either way you look at it, its just as important. Because when you got a built motor, you bet your bottom dollar your gonna want to push that thing. And then it comes just as important to, again, have full tuning capabilities.....

So either way you look at it. It's needed. Cause let's be honest, you spend all that money building a motor, who could honestly say, i'm not going to push that motor....
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  #34  
Old 01-02-2011, 03:34 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

the wastegate that i was using was a cheap ebay one so im not surprised it failed..just got lucky it didnt fail under boost. Just swapped it out for a turbosmart wastegate and awaiting another tune. The tuner that I used hadnt had prior experience with a f23 but the tune seemed to be pretty decent. The shop I used has done a ton of tuning with turbo hondas. The best numbers I got out of it on the dyno was 209whp at 7lbs on a chipped and socketed p28 tuned with eCtune. Ill post the pics and dyno sheet later when I have some time
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:42 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

does not seem like a very good tuner IMO...Im not even tuned and making more power at 7psi.. But i could be wrong?
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  #36  
Old 01-02-2011, 04:28 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

could be a different dyno
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:38 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

your right..i used a dynojet
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untuned turbo 217.01whp/238.46wtq @7psi
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  #38  
Old 01-03-2011, 10:11 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

Ringlands, and piston rings are different. Nothing wrong with the "RING" just the fact that the area between the crown of the piston and the first ring is not thick, nor ment for boost so it can only hold so much pressure. Same for the other spaces that the ring sits on hence ringland. Also they are cast instead of forged.

Tuning is critical, but there is room for error, even with a stock motor, you are not going to blow a motor up if its too rich, i have even seen some last in the 13 afr are so they are pretty stout.
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Last edited by EmMinODaGreaT; 01-03-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:17 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

ALSO, crome,hondata,neptune etc are all full stand alones. Because you dont pay 1400$ for it, and if doesnt come as its own ecu does not make it a non standalone. I have cars making 900whp on hondata, so yes its a standalone and can do virtually anything "AEM" can do.

When you can adjust fuel tables,ignition timing, launch control, lean cuts,boost cuts, monitor almost any sensor, that makes it a STAND ALONE.

When you can solely pull timing,add/remove fuel that is a piggyback system. IE Emanage,afc,neo,aemfic,dtec, etc.


The perks of S300,AEM,kpro,powerfc over S200/100,crome,neptune etc are that there are no rewriteable chips but there are files loaded to the ecu (meaning you can make tweaks yourself at the track,street,tune yourself if your good). With the others you must have a dealer,or an ostrich to burn the chip to put into the socketed ecu (still does the same things, but not as user friendly persay.) However imo if you dont know about tuning,whats ideal for your vehicle you don't need aem,s300. Although there are perks i like with each (aem has wicked 2 step controls).
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Last edited by EmMinODaGreaT; 01-03-2011 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:23 PM
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Re: F23a1 turbo build

P S S.... I M A D E 3 2 7 w h p stock motor with that same ****ty jumper harness and 14 psi, all day for months.

Crome Gold, obd2-1 conversion harness.
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