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Old 03-22-2011, 11:33 AM
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Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

Yeah...... http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803036

Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post



Inaccurate's Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI)



Note - This thread is not intended to discuss the basics of the typical nitrous installation nor the basics of nitrous. This thread will discuss those aspects of the NMI System that differ from a typical nitrous installation and/or nitrous topics specific to the Acura TL.



INTRODUCTION


This is not a "store bought" prepackaged kit. This is a custom system that I designed myself from concept to implementation to tuning. Each component of the system was individually selected. For the components, I favor no brand or company in particular. Just who ever makes the best individual component.

The Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI) is basically a wet nitrous system that uses a dedicated fuel cell and a dedicated fuel pump. The sole supplementary fuel for the nitrous is pure methanol.

The best way to describe what this project is, is to describe what is it not about. It is not about looking for quick, cheap horsepower. It is not about seeing how much nitrous the TL can withstand. My goal is to design and implement a safe nitrous system that will last with daily usage over the long-term. It is meant as a mod that will last for the next 100,000 miles with daily usage of the nitrous. My project is intended to be a Max-Reliability effort, not a Max-HP effort. I rather have something that I can beat on day after day, spraying once or twice daily instead of something that will grenade after a few months. Therefore, the bulk of following posts will be emphasizing the various safety features of the NMI System.

On our TL, nitrous is a safe power-added only if methanol is used as the supplementary fuel. The TL must have the methanol to combat the dreaded TL detonation destruction. Additionally, the NMI is safe on the TL only if the safety features (discussed below) are utilized. This is not to say that you can't break your TL with the NMI. The Nitrous Methanol Injection can cause the TL to break if the NMI is allowed to make too much torque or if ran with an improper nitrous/methanol ratio (aka, air/fuel ratio).

It is the methanol that works the voodoo in the NMI System. Here is a website (click here) that specializes in nitrous with ethanol (not methanol) as the only primary fuel source. Below is a excerpt from that website (O2-Technology).




And by the way, methanol is very much more potent than ethanol at producing power and suppressing detonation.




DETONATION ISSUES


As you know, the J32 loves to detonate. This is a big problem for anyone trying to boost (supercharger, turbo, or nitrous) the J32. I viewed this situation as follows when I designed my NMI - "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade."

My plan was to use methanol to "make lemonade". The Nitrous Methanol Injection (NMI) System was designed to use pure methanol for the supplementary fuel of the wet nitrous system to prevent detonation. Instead of the J32's compression ratio being a disadvantage, the high compression becomes an asset when running methanol. Race engines that are built to run solely methanol typically have a 16:1 compression ratio.

The NMI system is designed to require no timing retard nor any engine management electronics, such as the AEM FIC. I want and need the full oem timing map. I do not want the ecu to be retarding my timing even under boost. So, I removed the oem knock sensor to prevent the ecu from retarding the timing.

Under the nitrous boost, the detonation will be kept away by methanol. Huge quantities of pure methanol. I am not talking about water/meth injection. I am talking about the engine running off of huge percentages of pure methanol. Methanol engines need a lot of timing and compression.

I have confidence that the pure methanol + nitrous will have no detonation at all. I should be able to use any nitrous boost level that I dare with no fear of detonation.

If I do have detonation, then I will probably add a J&S SafeGuard (click here) to selectively retard just those cylinder(s) that are detonating.

Methanol does voodoo over detention. The high octane number of methanol does not do it justice. The methanol works it's voodoo against detonation in more sophisticated ways other than just by it's high octane number. It is beyond the scope of this post to fully explain how methanol does it's magic.


If you search the internet, you will find extremely few people that have ran nitrous with methanol as the supplementary fuel. I don't know if this is because so few people have thought of it, or because people that do it want to keep it a secret. I am being seriously. The nitrous methanol works DAMN WELL..... so much so that I can see how people want to keep it a secret.

Of the few people that have done nitrous methanol and are willing to talk about it, they describe it as a miracle combo.

Below are a few things that I have found on the internet -


















Below are some links of the few places on the internet that discusses nitrous with methanol

O2 Technology (click here)
Thread from the WON Forum (click here)
Thread from the LS1Tech Forum (click here)


The marriage of nitrous and methanol is the perfect marriage. Just like a real marriage, the union of the two produces a pair that covers-up their individual weaknesses. Synergy.

On the TL, regular nitrous (using gasoline as the supplementary fuel) is no more dangerous than a supercharger or a turbo. Whereas, my Nitrous Methanol Injection (NMI) is safer than a supercharger or a turbo in my opinion.

If the supplementary fuel for the nitrous is gasoline, then there will be that much more heat relative to the amount of power increase. However with methanol as the supplementary fuel, there will be little additional heat. Methanol as the supplementary fuel for the nitrous will produce the additional power without the damaging additional heat from gasoline.

While spraying the nitrous and methanol fog, and producing considerably more power, the engine will be much less prone to detonation than the engine would be normally aspirated.





OVERVIEW OF SAFETY FEATURES


To reach my goal of having a Max-Reliability nitrous system, I have designed and/or implemented several safety features to mitigate the dangers of running nitrous on the TL -

1) A custom burst panel to mitigate the damage from a backfire.

2) Relocated the IAT Sensor to mitigate the danger of increased ignition timing and to prevent additional gasoline via oem fuel injectors.

3) The nitrous/methanol nozzle is located 16 inches before the throttle body to mitigate the danger of unequal distribution and dropout. Also, the nozzle is located in such a manner to allow any methanol leakage to run downhill toward the air filter and away from the engine to mitigate the danger of hydrolock.

4) RPM Window Switch (tentatively set for 3500-6400 RPM) to mitigate the danger of producing too much torque. Also, to mitigate the danger of allowing the NMI system to be activated while the oem rev-limiter is activated. The switch will also mitigate devastating intake backfires commonly caused by activating a nitrous system at too low of an RPM.

5) Throttle Position Switch (TPS) to mitigate the damage to the automatic transmission during shifts.

6) Fuel Pressure Safety Switch (FPSS) to mitigate the danger of a major malfunction of the methanol delivery system.

7) Knock Monitor to mitigate the danger of detonation.

8) Wideband air/fuel gauge to mitigate the danger of a lean nitrous/methanol mixture.

9) Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) gauge to mitigate the danger of having combustion temperatures too hot.

10) Nitrous pressure gauge to mitigate the danger of a lean nitrous/methanol mixture.

11) The nitrous bottle is installed where I can operate the valve easily by hand to mitigate the danger of a leaking nitrous solenoid.

12) Racing ATF to mitigate the danger of burning the clutches in the automatic transmission.

13) Colder spark plugs (two steps) to mitigate the danger of pre-ignition.

14) Two nitrous solenoids in series to mitigate the danger of an uncontrolled flow of nitrous into the engine.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
DETAILED DISCUSSION OF SAFETY FEATURES


Although my overall goal in designing my NMI system was to keep the system as simple as possible (KISS approach), many things had to be incorporated to safely use the nitrous.


CUSTOM BURST PANEL

A custom backfire panel will be used. Nitrous is notorious for producing devastating intake backfires that can destroy the entire induction system of the car, including damaging the hood of the car. Nitrous intake backfires are usually caused by a momentary lean nitrous/fuel mixture. Backfires can also occur when nitrous has unintentionally leaked into an engine that is not running. When the engine is started, the nitrous that leaked into the engine will cause a backfire as the engine is being started. An intake backfire can also be caused by activating the system when the engine RPM is too low. If a nitrous backfire was to occur, the custom backfire panel will safely vent the explosive force. Installation steps and pictures will be in an update to this thread.


IAT SENSOR RELOCATION

The IAT Sensor will be relocated. If the IAT Sensor is allowed to be cooled by the nitrous and methanol mixture, the ECU will richen the air/gasoline mixture and possibly increase the ignition advance. I will be injecting methanol and I don't want the ECU to be stepping-in to add any additional gasoline. I am trying to inject as much methanol as possible. Also if the IAT Sensor is allowed to be cooled by the nitrous and methanol mixture, the ECU might add additional timing. And, I do not want any more timing that might induce detonation. I want just the oem full timing map based upon the ambient weather temperature. Installation steps and pictures will be in an update to this thread.


NOZZLE LOCATION



The typical recommendation for the nitrous nozzle placement is 8 inches before the throttle body. However, the nozzle for my NMI system will be located 16 inches before the throttle body to minimize any unequal distribution of the nitrous and methanol, and to minimize any dropout of the methanol.

In a single nozzle setup, it is important that the nitrous and methanol changes physical state before they have to make turns in the inlet tract. Liquids just do not make sharp turns as well as a gas. The idea is to give the nitrous and methanol more time to dissipate/evaporate, perhaps not entirely but enough to reduce the droplets size as much as possible. Less droplet size means less mass (less weight). The lighter droplets will remain in the air stream better with less separation (falling out of suspension) due to centrifugal forces.

Also, the additional nozzle distance will allow the fogged nitrous and methanol more time to evenly spread out within the CAI track before the air stream makes that "fork in the road" split in the manifold after the throttle body (see pic below).




As an additional benefit, the additional nozzle distance will allow the fogged methanol more time to cool the charge.

Also, the nozzle is located in such a manner to allow any methanol leakage to run downhill toward the air filter and away from the engine to mitigate the danger of hydrolock. Although there is a solenoid to control the flow of methanol, it is possible for debris to get caught under the seat of the solenoid. Leakage with the engine off could cause a cylinder to hydrolock. Or for a tiny leakage with the engine off to slip past the piston rings to dilute the engine oil.


RPM WINDOW SWITCH



To keep the NMI system as simple as possible (kiss), I had planned to use no electronics. I had planned to use just a simple mechanical switch as a WOT switch. However after thinking about the benefits of a Throttle Position Switch and a RPM Window Switch, I felt that the added complexity was worth it for the gained safety.

A RPM Window Switch (tentatively set for 3500-6400 RPM) will be used to allow activation of the system only within a preconfigured RPM range. This prevents the system from producing too much torque (unplanned) at low RPM's, which would break parts. Also, the RPM Window Switch will help the automatic transmission by having the nitrous system disengaged during the transmission shifting process. Thirdly, the RPM Window Switch will disengage the nitrous system before the engine hits the oem rev-limiter, which would possibly cause severe engine damage from a severe lean condition and/or also possibly cause a devastating intake backfire. As a side note, the 5AT TL is known to refuse to upshift from 2nd into 3rd, causing the engine to bounce off of the rev limiter (credits to libert69). The NMI system injects methanol for fuel. Thus, the oem ecu would not be able to limit the rpms by simply shutting down the oem fuel injectors. The ecu can shutdown the oem fuel injectors, but I am injecting my own fuel (methanol). Thus, the engine would just keep rev'ing while melting down from the lean mixture from losing the oem fuel from the injectors.


THROTTLE POSITION SWITCH

A Throttle Position Switch (TPS) is used to read the actual position of the throttle butterfly. Whenever the ecu removes WOT (regardless of the accelerator pedal position), the TPS will disengage the nitrous system. Like with the RPM Window Switch, the TPS will help the automatic transmission by having the nitrous system disengaged during the transmission shifting process. The TPS or the RPM Window Switch is serving as a redundancy to disengage the nitrous system between transmission shifts..... just a matter of which device deactivates the nitrous first and then the other device is a redundancy for added insurance. Having the nitrous system disengaged during the transmission shifting process will allow the clutch packs to couple (lock-up) without being under the strain of the boosted torque, thus helping to prevent burnt clutches.

Also the TPS will disengage the nitrous system when the ecu closes the throttle butterfly (less than wot) as part of Traction Control (TCS) to limit wheel spin. The TPS will theoretically (yet to be tested) allow the oem Traction Control System (TCS) to properly function to limit wheel spin.


FUEL PRESSURE SAFETY SWITCH

A Fuel Pressure Safety Switch (FPSS) will be used to prevent damage from a major malfunction of the methanol delivery system. The fuel pressure switch is wired in series with the nitrous solenoid wiring. The entire system is activated by powering-up the methanol pump. The pump must build pressure to trip the FPSS. Once the FPSS is tripped, the FPSS is responsible for sending power to the nitrous solenoid. This accomplishes two things. The FPSS will not allow the nitrous to flow if there is a major malfunction with the methanol delivery system. Also, the FPSS will allow the methanol lines to become pressurized before allowing the nitrous to flow, thus minimizing any temporary lean condition caused by the high pressure nitrous beginning to flow before the methanol has begun to flow.


GAUGES




Other safety aspects that my NMI system uses are gauges to monitor engine knock, exhaust gas temperature (EGT), nitrous pressure, and air/fuel ratio. The pics above are my onboard gauges that I will use to tune my system. The mounting location of these gauges is not for show. It is paramount that I be able to view the gauge while the system is activated. I will be doing my own research & development of my system.

Even with my gauges mounted right in front of me on the A-column, I am not able to really monitor them closely when I really need it, which is wot. The most that I can do is to just catch a quick glimpse of one gauge. One trick that does help in this regards is to rotate the gauge in such a fashion that the needle is pointing straight-up or down at a predetermined limit. For example, my afr gauge is rotated so that 11.0 will be pointing straight upward. And my EGT gauge's needle will point straight down when the temp is 1500* F.

With a quick glance, my eye needs to just see the angle of the needle, which the human brain is very good at doing by instinct. I do not need to "read" the gauge. This is why you see my gauges rotated unlevel. I rotated the gauges in such a fashion so I can quickly recognize a reading "in the red" based on angle versus having to think about it.

On a positive note, I will say that the Phormula knock monitor display is well designed. It is easy to watch it out of the corner on my eye, even wot in traffic...usually.


KNOCK MONITOR



A knock monitor is used to warn of deadly engine detonation. Because I will be trusting my engine to this knock sensor, I was willing to pay to get a top notch one. After doing some searching around, I found that many tuners love the Phormula, made in Europe (click here). To learn more about knock monitors, please see the spin-off thread Knock Monitor (click here).

The installation of the knock monitor was hard. But, I wanted my knock monitor to work as well as possible. This meant I had to remove my intake manifold, intake runners, fuel rails to reach the valley of the V-block where the oem knock sensor is located. It took me about 3 days, 6 hours per day. But I am anal and work slow too.


EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAUGE



An Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) gauge will warn me of severely high combustion temperatures. Unlike a turbo or supercharger, nitrous poses a very real possibility of causing the engine to have a thermal meltdown, such as a melted hole in the piston crown if the nitrous/methanol ratio became too lean. Thus, spending a lot for a high quality EGT gauge becomes an investment. After doing some Google'ing, I found that the best EGT gauge was Greddy. However, I also learned that Greddy is no longer making gauges. The Defi EGT gauge had many positive comments too. So, I went with the Defi EGT Gauge PN# 6803 (click here).

The sensor probe is mounted on the rear bank because of this thread, J32A2's arn't unbreakable (click here). And because the pigtail of the sensor probe would be awkward hanging from the front bank.


WIDEBAND AIR/FUEL GAUGE



Because I will be tuning my own nitrous system and re-jetting several times each year based on the change of weather seasons, I need a high quality air/fuel gauge.

Checking various tuning forums showed that the preferred wideband was the Innovate LC-1. Easy choice. Plus, I enjoyed being able to order it directly from the manufacturer's website. The exact model that I got is the LC-1 (click here).

I wanted a wideband gauge that had a very low afr readout. Plus, I wanted an analog gauge, not a digital gauge, so that I could quickly glance at the gauge to read it. Many analog wideband gauges go as low as only 11. The 11 is too close to my target ideal mixture with the nitrous/methanol. So, I need a gauge that will read as low as 10 at least. The Innovate meter reads down to 8.

As a side note, here is a great article comparing the different widebands (click here).


NITROUS PRESSURE GAUGE



A nitrous pressure gauge is used to monitor the pressure in the nitrous bottle. The nitrous/methanol ratio (afr) is a function of the bottle pressure. If the system was activated with too much bottle pressure (based on the current jetting), a lean mixture would occur. So having the nitrous pressure gauge in front of me, I can easily determine if I should refrain from activating the system to prevent a lean afr.

Another reason that the nitrous bottle pressure is important is the overall level of nitrous boost (shot amount) is a function of the bottle pressure. Because I will be logging my power output with my performance meter, it would be helpful to know what slight influence the pressure has on the power output.

Nothing fancy here. Just an AutoMeter Nitrous Pressure Gauge (PN# 6974) (click here). Also got some extra wiring (PN# 5223) (click here) to make sure that it reaches to the bottle.


BOTTLE LOCATED WITHIN REACH





In keeping with my kiss approach to designing the NMI System, I was able to avoid using an electric remote bottle opener. The electric openers are notorious for being problematic too. The nitrous bottle is installed where I can operate the valve easily by hand. Having the bottle valve closed as much as possible is considered to be a safety feature to mitigate the danger of a leaking nitrous solenoid.

The valve will normally be closed. With the bottle being mounted in this location, I am able to easily turn the valve at a moment's notice when I have the slightest hint that I might be using the system. Based on past experience in recent years, I usually know when a race is a possibility and have approx 5 seconds at least to prepare for it. I always keep a keen eye for possible opponents around me. After the opportunity has passed, I will turn the valve off again.

The disadvantage to my kiss approach is that the bottle is easily visible to a police office if I get pulled over for speeding. I probably will paint my bottles a flat black color just out of personal taste. The bonus also being to make the bottle less noticeable. If I have problems with unwanted attention to the bottle, I will be forced to mount the bottle in the trunk and use a remote opener. We'll see how it goes.


PERFORMANCE METER



A performance meter is being used to assist with tuning aspects and to help estimate the level of nitrous boost. It will provide insight into how my changes are affecting the car, tuning wise and performance wise. It is also a method to document my performance (acceleration rate) for later comparison.

I was fortune to learn about the Auterra DashDyno (click here). I have been waiting for a product like this for years. To me, it is superior to the other performance meters that rely on accelerometers. The DashDyno is identical to a "fifth wheel" like "Car and Driver" (and other car magazine) had used in the past to collect their performance data. The DashDyno is also able to record live data from the ecu, such as ignition timing, throttle position, AFR, RPM. The recorded data can be viewed on a home PC computer alongside the actual performance numbers (acceleration rate). Very powerful tool for my needs.

I much rather have MPH-versus-Time data instead of data from a chassis dyno. The data from the DashDyno is raw data. Raw data is better because the data has not been "processed" thru various formulas and factors such as the data from a chassis dyno. Similar to a "fifth wheel", the DashDyno just collects the MPH and RPM as raw data from the ECU. KISS is what helps the data to be simple, repeatable, and reliable.

I also use the RPM-versus-Time data to quantify and compare my performance. The RPM-versus-Time data is great to see changes in the powerband between mods. Nearly identical to a dyno chart showing the HP/TQ curves, but without the complicated formulas to derive the actual HP figures.

Another reason that I prefer the DashDyno instead of a chassis dyno is for the convenience. I am recording my engine output constantly as I am driving my car. The data is saved to a computer chip that is later used to upload the data to my home computer.

I keep records of how much time it takes my car to accelerate at wot. The results are very repeatable. And, repeatable means reliable. After any race (even unexpected), I can review the data and see how the engine was performing.

This is a big help if you are a paranoid person like myself. "Is my car still running up to par? Did my last mod make me slower or quicker?"

I don't even need to do a full run thru a gear. Anytime I go wot for more than approx 2 seconds or longer, I have enough data to determine how much relative power I am putting to the ground.

Granted that you need level roads. I am Houston…… all we have is flat land

Granted it is hard to brag that your car accelerates from 40-50 mph in x number of seconds. But for benchmarking my car's performance to gauge my mods, it is great. Plus, it is fun to "paper race" my car's acceleration with published performance data of popular factory automobiles. It is easy to find MPH versus Time data on the internet of factory automobiles.

To learn more about performance meters, please see the spin-off thread Data Loggers (click here)


SPARK PLUGS

Because my NMI System uses methanol as the fuel to produce the increased power output, there should be less heat produced within the combustion chambers than if the extra power came from gasoline. However, just to play it safe and because the oem plugs are too hot even for n/a, I will be using a plug which is one or two steps colder than oem. For an added safety measure, I will probably use a Dremel to cut back the ground strap to reduce it's length.

It is commonly believed (by me too), that a regular nitrous (not NMI) motor can easily have pre-ignition. The pre-ignition will mostly likely happen while the engine is still in the Intake Stroke. The intake valve opens. The mixture is being drawn into the cylinder. The nitrous mixture comes into contact with the hot sparkplug. Maybe some of the nitrous begins to disassociate, releasing pure oxygen. Perhaps the rich oxygen mixture can easily ignite from the hot spark plug. This would happen while the intake valve is still open. Thus, the ignited mixture would spread out into the intake track, producing a devastating intake backfire.

Although the NMI will have cooler combustion temperatures than a regular nitrous system, it is prudent to switch to colder plugs just to be on the safe side.

Unlike boosting the power via forced induction, nitrous does not need a smaller spark plug gap. This is my personal theory. Turbocharging and supercharging produce higher cylinder pressure prior to ignition. The dielectric of air increases as the air pressure increases. This means that it takes more voltage to arc across a given distance when there is higher air pressure in the cylinder. There is two ways around this dilemma. Increase the voltage or to reduce the distance (reduce the gap). Most people reduce the gap because this is easier than increasing the voltage.

But nitrous does not increase the cylinder pressure prior to ignition. Thus, the plug fires with the same ease with nitrous boost as the plug does without the nitrous. The nitrous does not change the engine's spark plug gap requirements in my opinion.

It is highly recommended that a resistor type plug be used. A non-resistor plug has a high probability of causing havoc with our ECU.

Platinum plugs are to never be used with nitrous boosted engines. Some people feel that platinum plug promote pre-ignition. And, there have been instances where the platinum tip has lost its bond to either the center or ground electrode when the platinum plugs were used in a motor with nitrous.

Even Iridium plugs are frowned upon by some nitrous users.

Now to look at plug options for the TL. Many Honda tuners use and trust the NGK BKR8EIX. Another option often recommended is the NGK BKR7E.

Other than those two choices, there are no other performance plugs that are commonly recommended for the Honda.


TWO NITROUS SOLENOIDS IN SERIES

By running two nitrous solenoids in series, I will have great insurance against accidental nitrous leakage into the engine. This type of leakage is another common cause of intake backfires. Nitrous leaking past the solenoid can easily happen if trash/debris gets stuck under the seat of the solenoid. Although a filter can stop debris, the filter can not prevent debris after the nitrous has past the filter, heading toward the solenoid. Pieces of the Teflon liner in the braided hose and/or threading debris can now get into the solenoid and cause it to stick open. Even metal from the solenoid itself can flake off and lodge under the seat. No filter can prevent that failure.

Another benefit of running dual solenoids in series is insurance against uncontrolled flow of nitrous into the engine. A single solenoid has the potential of failing to close after the electrical current has been stopped. There are many reports on nitrous solenoids having a failure in the open position. That is, the solenoid can become stuck open during usage. This would be a ugly failure mode. A solenoid becoming stuck in the open position does not happen frequently, but frequently enough to cause worry if you are looking to designed the safest system possible.

Here is an excellent thread (click here) that discusses the usage of dual solenoids in series.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
MAXIMUM SHOT


THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION

I have searched the Acurazine forum (2G and 3G) and Honda forums looking for clues of how much power the 5AT can handle. From using experiences from other J32 owners (boosted owners with superchargers or nitrous), I should be safe with approx 75-HP boost. But it is not really the horsepower that will break parts. It is the peak torque that break parts. I have estimated that approx 315-350 ft.lbs. of torque (or a 90-115 shot) would be a sane (I didn't say safe) limit. For anyone looking for a relatively safe system, a safe limit would be around 275-290 ft.lbs. of torque (or a 60-70 shot) for the 5AT, provided it had Racing ATF. And in both cases, safe or sane limits, the system must be activated only above 3500 RPM.

If you have a 6MT, a upgraded clutch will be needed. For the 5AT, switching to Redline Racing ATF is the only requirement.

I am trusting the Racing ATF (click here) to make the trans live a long, happy life with this 350 ft.lb. sane limit. By the way, when I say "sane", I mean borderline insane...... that any more torque would be insane for the 5AT.

Plus, the NMI System uses a Throttle Position Switch that reads the actual closing of the throttle butterfly between shifts. Thus, the nitrous will be turned off while the trans is shifting. This will allow the clutch pack to couple (lock up) without being under the strain of the boosted torque.

With my TL Diet (click here), this 350 ft.lb. sane limit will be the equivalent to 465 ft.lbs on a normal TL....... what a monster that would be.


BOOST LEVEL

I designed the system from the ground-up to have a maximum shot of 125. Not that I plan to ever use the max. But, anytime something is being designed, certain parameters must be established beforehand as part of the designing stage. And after some deep thinking, I decided that the most that I would ever dare use would be 100.

For comparison, the TL Turbo Kit is designed and tested to safely put down around 360 to 380 whp. Many extreme supercharger installations on the TL are getting close to 350 whp. As I was designing my system, setting design parameters, I easily decided that a 100 shot would be the most that I would use. With my current n/a mods, I estimate I am at 250 whp actual or 330 whp "tl diet" equivalent. So, it was easy to settle on the 100 shot maximum. If I am ever comfortable to creep up to this 100 shot max, it would put me at 465 whp (and 460 ft.lbs. torque) "tl diet" equivalent. And that my friends is enough for me.

One advantage of designing my own system versus purchasing an off-the-shelf kit is that I can slowly work my way up the horsepower ladder in small increments. I plan to begin the initial shake-down using a 20 shot. Then migrate upward in 10-HP increments from the initial 20 shot. However, I plan to stop at around 75. I have no plans of exceeding maybe 90 at the most.

I will let traction issues to help me to decide on a final shot amount. My plan is to see how much nitrous the 2nd gear can tolerate, traction wise. Without nitrous, my first gear is perfectly at the threshold of traction. So, I have no plans of using nitrous in 1st gear.

If the 2nd gear has problems with traction while using too small of a shot, I will later consider doing a dual (or triple) stage system. With a multi-stage system, I can have a smaller shot for 2nd gear (at the traction threshold) and a larger shot for 3rd gear.

There is a small chance that the Throttle Position Switch (TPS) for the nitrous system will allow the oem Traction Control (TCS) to limit wheel spin. The TPS will disengage the nitrous system when the ecu closes the throttle butterfly (less than wot) as part of Traction Control (TCS) to limit wheel spin. The TPS will theoretically (yet to be tested) allow the oem Traction Control System (TCS) to properly function. There is a chance that the TCS could modulate the nitrous output similar to a crude progressive controller. If this works, this would be a huge assist to the whole NMI System. I would be able to run as much nitrous as I dare without fears if the tires will stay planted. Otherwise if the tires break traction, my only option is to disengage the nitrous (thus most likely losing the drag race) to regain traction.






Before leaving this topic of how much nitrous to use, let me add the following.

The greatest problem with running nitrous is human greed. I listen to a song often that phrases it well -

"Clip the wings that get you high,
just leave them where they lie
And tell yourself, 'you'll be the death of me' "
(By Seether - "Remedy")

The way I hear the song is "Leave the metering jets alone. And tell myself, 'nitrous will be the death of my engine' ". Yes, it is difficult resisting the temptation of replacing just two metering jets to gain more power. I must remind myself constantly of nitrous' biggest disadvantage - it is easy to become greedy and thus fail.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
A 64-LB MOTHER AND HER TWO 10-LB CHILDREN

















MOTHER BOTTLE

I have my own mother bottle at home to do my own refills. The mother bottle came from AirGas (my pics above). Anything less than purchasing your nitrous from a national, reputable company is a huge crap-shot. Forums are filled with people getting shafted (cheated) by local speed shops supposedly refilling their bottle. Not really filled completely. And *if* it is filled completely, filled with what? Their cars run like crap because the speed shop filled their bottle with something but it was not quality nitrous.

There are four reasons for having a mother bottle to do your own refills. One reason is that you are reassured of the quality of the nitrous. Another reason is that you can keep the car's bottle at it's sweet spot between 3/4 to 2/3 full. The third reason is convenience. And the fourth reason is lower cost. The lower cost from buying the nitrous in bulk quantities is just a side benefit to me.

I purchased 64 lbs for $129. That is $2.01 per pound. That would be $20.10 for a 10-lb refill. This does not include the price of the delivery charge and tax.

The cost is reasonable for the gains. Is the turbo or supercharger or nitrous cheaper in the long run? I don't care myself. It is not about money to me. I would run nitrous if it was two, three, or more times more expensive than supercharging or turbo because I just flat out love everything about nitrous. Other than the inconvenience of driving somewhere to have them to refill the bottle, which I admit is a hassle if you use it too much. This is one of many reasons that I got my own mother bottle.


THE SWEET SPOT

It is paramount to a strong nitrous system to keep the car's bottle at it's sweet spot, which is between 3/4 to 2/3 full. As the level of nitrous in the bottle drops below 1/2 full, the rate of the pressure drop greatly increases and it becomes harder to maintain a stable pressure.

As a comparison, your car performs the same whether your gasoline tank is full or nearly empty. But, a nitrous system is the opposite. The nitrous system performs best when the bottle is 3/4 full and quickly diminishes in performance as the bottle empties. Once the bottle is below half full, the nitrous performance diminishes quickly thereafter. The sweet spot is between 3/4 to 2/3 full. With my mother bottle in my garage, I will easily be able to keep my bottle in the sweet spot constantly.


I have a spot in the garage to do the refills. There is also a freezer in the garage too to assist with the refilling process. Look for further details in an update to this thread.









NITROUS BOTTLES



I have two 10-lb bottles. The reason for two bottles is so that one can be carried in the car while the other is in the freezer in the garage.

For a nitrous bottle, I feel that Nitrous Express (NX) produces the best bottle because NX uses a valve specifically designed for nitrous systems which minimizes the internal diameter variations.



Compare the Nitrous Express (NX) valve above to this Holley/NOS brand shown below.






I will be removing the bottle very often, perhaps daily, to keep it filled and perhaps to keep it in the house overnight on very cold nights. I wanted a hinged bracket to make removing the bottle easy. Plus, there would not be enough room to slide the 10-lb bottle thru normal brackets without hitting the gear selector. I found this bracket (click here) from Holley/NOS that worked great for my needs.




Of course, the weight of the bottle is a big concern for me. The game plan was to carry just enough nitrous for a typical day. I can always refill the bottle every evening if needed. Just like with my primary fuel where I carry just enough gasoline for one day, the nitrous system is designed with this same concept. But first, I needed to calculate how much nitrous I would possibly use per day. After some other parameters had been defined, such as a maximum shot of 100, it's was as simple as crunching the numbers.

I estimated that I would, at the most, have three races per day. Again, at the most. I can go a month without a single encounter. But sometimes when it rains, it pours. According to my data logging with the DashDyno (always recording), my encounters can range from as brief as two seconds, to as long as 10 seconds in durations. But typically, my encounters are usually less than 5 or 7 seconds in duration.

Therefore, we can design the system to be activated for 21 seconds (3 encounters for 7 seconds each) per day. Given the formula of
HP = (lbs/min) x 20, we can calculate how much nitrous we would consume (at most) per day. With that same formula, we convert minutes into seconds to get Sec = (lbs x 1200) / HP. Then, plug in our values for 21 seconds and 100 HP, and solve for lbs. This gives 1.75 lbs.

Given that I would consume 2 lbs (1.75 rounded-off to 2 lbs) nitrous per day at the most, I could had went with a 5-lb bottle. A 5-lb bottle would had still allowed me to keep the nitrous level in the sweet spot. I was fairly settled on getting the 5-lb bottles. But, I then begin remembering from my younger days about the terrible feeling of spraying with a bottle that was less than 1/2 full. It sucks in comparison to a full bottle. So, I began to have concerns of the smaller bottle being able to maintain adequate pressure during a prolonged run. It was difficult deciding between a 5-lb or 10-lb bottle. Performance versus weight. Ultimately, performance was more important than the weight penalty.

A bigger bottle has more thermal momentum, which means there is less temperature and pressure drop during sustained boosting because there is more mass to donate heat for boiling liquid nitrous to maintain vapor pressure. A bigger bottle that is somewhat under filled will experience a smaller pressure drop when the system begins spraying. This is because there is a larger high-pressure gas bubble in the bottle that will not be greatly depressurized the moment you start using it. Many nitrous racers have a rule of thumb that says that a nitrous bottle is fully effective at delivering "sweet" nitrous in a continuous burst only while the bottle is around two-thirds full. The smaller percentage of nitrous used in relationship to the overall amount present, the better it is for performance.





Regarding a carbon fiber nitrous bottle. A carbon fiber bottle weighs half of a regular bottle. The carbon fiber 10-lb bottle weighs 7 lbs. A regular 10-lb bottle weighs 13.5 lbs. Therefore, 6.5 lbs could be saved. But, a carbon fiber bottle is way too scary for me. I get chills just thinking about 1000 PSI being held back by epoxy and carbon fiber fabric.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
NITROUS VERSUS TURBOCHARGING AND SUPERCHARGING ON THE TL


I invite discussions which compare the advantages/disadvantages between nitrous and forced induction (turbocharging and supercharging). I do not think this would be off-topic to this thread. Each person has different desires and needs. I want Acurazine members to know their options and to pick the option that fits their needs the best. I just ask that we focus the discussion to how it pertains to the TL.

Both the turbo and nitrous are able to make much more power than the TL can withstand from a mechanical perspective.

On the TL, nitrous (using gasoline as the supplementary fuel) is no more dangerous than a supercharger or a turbo. Whereas, my Nitrous Methanol Injection (NMI) is safer than a supercharger or a turbo in my opinion.

If the supplementary fuel for the nitrous is gasoline, then there will be that much more heat relative to the amount of power increase. However with methanol as the supplementary fuel, there will be no additional heat. Methanol as the supplementary fuel for the nitrous will produce the additional power with *no* additional heat.

With the NMI system activated and producing considerably more power, the engine will be much less prone to detonation than the engine would be NA.


Nitrous has disadvantages too. Just like the supercharger and turbo has it's disadvantages and advantages.

Nitrous should only been considered if a person is satisfied with his car's normally-aspirated performance for normal daily use, but wants a power reserve he can unleash when needed for short time intervals.

Nitrous can not be used endlessly like a turbo or supercharger because the bottle will last only 2 minutes (generally speaking) before requiring a refill. Nitrous is primarily used for straight-line acceleration contest, not as an inexhaustible power increase for everyday driving. For example, I estimate that I have, at the most, three races per day. Again, at the most. I can go a month without a single encounter. But sometimes when it rains, it pours. According to my data logging with the DashDyno (always recording), my encounters can range from as brief as two seconds to as long as 10 seconds in duration. But typically, my encounters are usually 4 and 5 seconds in duration. In this perspective, the 120 seconds of usage from a bottle of nitrous does not seem so bad.

Another disadvantage of nitrous is it lacks a progressive power delivery ("all bottle, no throttle"). I do not race my car on a road race course where I need the smooth power delivery of the turbo or supercharger to accelerate coming out of turns. If I had a turbo or supercharger, the full output from it would only be used for an acceleration contest anyway. To use myself as an example, I never use medium throttle anyways. My foot is always at less than 1/2 throttle - or - floored. So, the non-progressive aspect (full on / full off) of nitrous fits me. The closet thing to a road race that I could imagine is if I had to evade an aggressive driven bent on causing me harm. But even then, I feel that 120-seconds worth of immediate and intense acceleration down the straight sections would see me thru that ordeal.

Another disadvantage of nitrous is it's impossible to finesse traction from the tires. With a supercharger or turbo, the driver can modulate the throttle to maintain traction. With nitrous, you activate the nitrous and hope for the tires to stay planted. If the tires break traction, your only option is to disengage the nitrous (thus most likely losing the drag race) to regain traction. However on the TL, this might not be too big of an issue.

There is a small chance that the Throttle Position Switch (TPS) for the nitrous system will allow the oem Traction Control (TCS) to limit wheel spin. The TPS will disengage the nitrous system when the ecu closes the throttle butterfly (less than wot) as part of Traction Control (TCS) to limit wheel spin. The TPS will theoretically (yet to be tested) allow the oem Traction Control System (TCS) to properly function. There is a chance that the TCS could modulate the nitrous output similar to a crude progressive controller. If this works, this would be a huge assist to the whole NMI System. I would be able to run as much nitrous as I dare without fears if the tires will stay planted.



On the bright side, the nitrous has no part-throttle power augmentation and thus no tuning hassles for part throttle.
Whereas, a supercharger and turbo does have part-throttle power augmentation. But, it is hard to tune the TL for that part-throttle advantage.





ADVANTAGES OF THE NMI System
No stand-alone AEM FIC needed
No fighting with the factory ECU
No timing retard needed
No part-throttle tuning needed
Super detonation resistance
Fully and easily adjustable power levels
Full control over the A/F mixture without the ecu interfering
No need to upgrade oem injectors
Extremely powerful powerband (low rpm torque)
Does not interfere with oem emission equipment
System can be moved to another vehicle
Easy to hide if desired


DISADVANTAGES OF THE NMI System
Bottle last only 2 minutes before requiring refill.
Power delivery is not progressive ("all bottle, no throttle").
Used only for straight-line acceleration contest, not overall power increase.
Inconvenience and cost having to refill bottle
Requires special safety precautions










POWER CURVE - NITROUS VERSUS BASIC SUPERCHARGER


Other than the progressive power delivery of the supercharger, the nitrous is head-and-shoulders above the supercharger for the TL, power wise. With the supercharger's primitive tuning and it's heated intake charge, the supercharger on the TL is more dangerous than regular nitrous. And compared to the NMI, the supercharger is downright scary in regards to engine safety.

Let's compare the power curves of a supercharger TL to a nitrous TL, both having equal peak power.





The supercharger produces a 60 HP increase at 6700 RPM. The chart above shows a 60-shot nitrous versus the supercharger according to the advertised Comptech dyno chart. Both the supercharger and nitrous are adding a 60-hp increase at peak rpm . However, look in the pic above at the area-under-the-curve for the nitrous versus the supercharger. The nitrous is producing way over double the power increase (over stock) throughout the driving range compared to the supercharger. For real world racing, the 60-shot nitrous is making DOUBLE and a half (246%) the power increase over the supercharger's 60-hp increase (over stock).






Also, the torque for the nitrous is "off the chain" and literally off of the chart shown above.

This is why a video will look so sick showing someone racing with nitrous versus an opponent without nitrous. The power is immediate and intense. And, this is one of the many reasons that I love nitrous as a power-adder. Once you have experienced this type of power rush, you will be hooked.





For real world racing, the 60-shot nitrous is making well over DOUBLE (222%) the torque increase over the supercharger's torque increase (over stock). Above are the raw numbers.










POWER CURVE - NITROUS VERSUS MAXIMUM-EFFORT SUPERCHARGER





Ok, now let's compare nitrous to some stiffer competition like a max'ed out supercharger. Above is a dyno chart from a maximum-effort supercharger installation (click here for source). Again, notice in the pic above at the area-under-the-curve for the nitrous versus the max-effort supercharger. The nitrous is producing substantially more power throughout the driving range compared to the max-effort supercharger.






Above are the raw numbers. As with the off-the-shelf supercharger, the nitrous will make more power overall than a max-effort supercharger for the same given peak horsepower.











POWER CURVE - NITROUS VERSUS TURBO





Above is comparing the turbo against nitrous. This is a dyno chart from a 5AT Turbo (click here for source) having a peak HP of 408 HP at 6700 RPM. A 96-shot of nitrous will duplicate the same average power between the range of 3500-6500 RPM, while still having slightly less peak torque than the turbo.





Above are the raw numbers.











POWER CURVE - TURBO VERSUS TRIPLE-STAGE NITROUS


"ok, but if the race starts from 5000 RPM, the turbo would be making significantly more power between 5000 and 6500 RPM." True. For the nitrous to have the same power as the turbo in the upper RPM range, we would need to install a triple stage nitrous system. The triple stage system is needed to prevent the nitrous from making excessive low RPM torque, which would break parts on the TL. For any nitrous newbies, it is usually not required for a strongly built engine to have three stages with a 160 shot. However in the TL case, we must avoid generating too much torque. One easy method to not generate too much low RPM torque with nitrous is to use multiple stages.








Above is comparing the turbo (with 408 hp) against a triple-stage nitrous system.






Above are the raw numbers for the triple-stage nitrous system. Again, the nitrous will produce more power under the curve (higher average power).









In Closing



The powercurve examples above illustrates nitrous' greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness too if not managed, which is it's ability to make intense and immediate power irregardless of engine RPM. The nitrous has a power curve like nothing else except maybe a highly-sophisticated turbo (which is yet to be reality on the 5AT TL). This is why I love nitrous. I am interested in a power-adder for only drag racing. And, nitrous is more than perfect for this role. For drag racing, nitrous is much better than a supercharger or turbocharger. Especially with a street encounter where you will not necessarily be able to do a pull thru your entire powerband. With the supercharger and turbocharger, you will be at a disadvantage if the street encounter transpired while you were in the lower part of the rpm range and the encounter ended before you ever reached the sweet spot of your powerband. Whereas with nitrous, you are at your fullest potential anywhere and everywhere in the rpm range.

The powercurve examples also illustrates another beautiful aspect of nitrous, it's flexibility. A person can be creative in designing a nitrous system to make nitrous do nearly anything.

It is possible to use nitrous along with a supercharger or turbocharger. Just like methanol is a perfect match for nitrous, a turbocharged car is a perfect companion for nitrous. In both case, the one is covering-up the weakness in the other in a symbiotic relationship fashion. As shown above, nitrous makes tremendous low rpm torque with a small shot of nitrous. As the rpm's increase, the torque from the nitrous greatly diminishes. On the other hand, the opposite is true of a turbo. A turbo has inherently weak low-rpm torque and tremendous high-rpm torque.

When a small shot of nitrous is used with a turbo, a tremendously flat and tremendously strong torque curve can be generated with the turbo and nitrous working in harmony with each other. In the distant future, this is the direction that I see myself heading. After my TL wears-out, my next car will be a used EVO. The EVO will undergo a massive EVO Diet plus nitrous to assist the EVO's turbo.



A question that some readers may have is "How can you make these dyno comparisons? How do you know what the power curve from the nitrous will look like? How do you know that the nitrous will make the amount of power that you state on the dyno examples shown above?" This illustrates another beautiful aspect of nitrous. Nitrous will make a predictable amount of power per a given flow rate of liquid nitrous. It is guaranteed. If you know the flow rate, it is just a matter of doing the math to create the dyno curve without actually having the car on a real dyno. With a normally aspirated engine (not turbo), the real dyno charts match the calculated figures very closely and predictably. The only exceptions (nothing is fool-proof) are cases were the nitrous installation had errors, such as grossly incorrect afr, wrong metering jets for desired shot amount, nitrous bottle pressure too high or too low producing unexpected nitrous flow rates, etc.

Calculating the power increase from the nitrous on a turbo engine is less predictable...... in a good way. A given shot size of nitrous will make more power than expected on a turbocharged engine, sometimes significantly more power for a given shot size.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
DIRECT-PORT VERSUS SINGLE-POINT INJECTION




Since I was young, I had always dreamed of some day having a "Fogger System", what we now days call a direct-port system. The direct-port system looked so bad-*** cool. In the beginning of my NMI project (designing stage), I had considered using a direct port system for the equal distribution benefit.

As I learned more about direct-port versus single-point injection, I learned that the direct-port is not what I had always thought it was. In street level applications (less than a 125 shot), direct-port injection is more of a band-aid to work around poor manifold distribution. There is no power advantage to direct port systems versus a single-point injector system. On the contrary, many experts believe that the single-point injector system produces more power than a direct port system, although by a small amount.

Furthermore, the theoretical even distribution of a direct-port system is not easily attained as people think. The theoretical even distribution gets screwed-up by the distribution blocks used to branch out the individual lines of nitrous and fuel to each direct-port nozzle. Many people are just under the illusion that they have equal distribution with their direct port system. The only way to know for sure is to bench test the system to check each injector's flow rate of nitrous and fuel.

From searching Acurazine and other Honda forums, the intake manifold on the J-series engine seems (from empirical evidence) to be very adequate in evenly distributing a wet mixture (nitrous and fuel). This empirical evidence is based on the lack of reports from forum members (Acurazine and other Honda forums) stating that their nitrous usage caused an engine failure. And, many of these were 100-125 shots. On the contrary, forum members report great results from adequate to haphazard installations.

As added safety, I have designed the NMI System to have the single-point injector located far away from the throttle body. The idea is to give the nitrous and methanol more time to dissipate/evaporate, perhaps not entirely but enough to reduce the droplets size as much as possible. Less droplet size means less mass (less weight). The lighter droplets will remain in the air stream better with less separation (falling out of suspension) due to centrifugal forces.








REASONS THAT I CHOSE THE SINGLE-POINT INJECTOR SYSTEM

1) With a direct-port system, the fear of having one of those small jets becoming clogged would not let me sleep at night. The common response to this fear is to use a filter. I agree. But, stuff still happens if you give it half a chance. To me, the worry is having the fuel jet to become clogged on just one injector. I would not be able to detect the clogged jet by the seat-of-the-pants or via my gauges. That one clogged jet would melt down that one cylinder, thus taking out the entire engine. Too scary for me. I would rather have the big diameter jets of a single-point injector. If the fuel jet of the single-point injector became clogged, I would know quickly and easily.

2) One of the reasons for going with single-point injector is being able to re-jet the system easily. If I had direct port, the nozzles would be difficult to reach to change the jetting. I am adamant about not running a bottle heater. Thus, I really need to re-jet the system at least two or three times per year according to the change of the weather seasons.

3) Other than the knock resistance that methanol provides, the other benefit to using methanol is for the cooling effect that it has on the intake charge. Having a cold induction charge for the TL was one of my main reasons to use nitrous. In theory, the methanol has the potential to double the overall cooling effect. A 100-shot of nitrous will drop the induction charge by 55*F. The large amount of methanol might provide approximately a 55*F reduction too. So, on a 100*F summer day, the intake charge could potentially be 0*F, well below freezing, while the NMI system is activated. But, this intense cooling can only occur if the nitrous and methanol is given the time needed to chill the air. A direct port system would not allow the nitrous or methanol to have enough time to chill the air. However, a single-point injector, being located far from the intake valve, will provide the nitrous and methanol adequate time to fully chill the intake charge.

4) As an option, a single-point injector system will allow me to easily use a dual or triple stage system in the future.








DIRECT-PORT SYSTEM USING MDX SPACER


If anyone was interested in pursuing a direct-port system on the TL, the MDX Intake Manifold Spacer can be used to facilitate the install. Here are pics from Acurazine member "Rajca" from his thread "Rajca's Project CL-S6 Car" (click here).









Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
WARNING TO NITROUS NEWBIES


Although the goal of this thread is to not discuss the basics of nitrous, this exception is a courteous warning to any nitrous newbie that might read this thread.

In some states, it is illegal to have a hose connected to the nitrous bottle while on public roads.

A dry nitrous kit can not be used on the TL. Thus, the following paragraphs directly below pertain to a wet nitrous kit.

If you do use nitrous, please realize that you are running a risk of breaking your TL.

The engine in the TL is very prone to denotation with it's high compression ratio and oem tuning. If the engine detonates while under the influence of nitrous, you have a very good chance of blowing a head gasket or breaking a piston. This warning of detonation applies to the typical purchased nitrous kit, not to my Nitrous Methanol Injection system. The detonation problem is mitigated by the methanol in the NMI System.

On the TL, nitrous is a much better power augmentation method than supercharging or turbocharging in regards to producing tons of low-end power. If nitrous is used indiscriminately, that low-end power will break something.

Also, if the a/f ratios are not correct (tuning), you could melt a hole in your piston.

Only run nitrous if you have the knowledge and skills to properly implement nitrous. There are many pitfalls to nitrous. Nitrous is not about bolting on solenoids, a bottle, and stainless steel braided hoses.

Surprisingly, the vast majority of people that use nitrous with the J-series engine in general, and with the 3G TL in particular, have no trouble with regards to apparent engine damage. However, even if most users have no apparent engine damage, there could still be long-term damage occurring. For example, one Acurazine member (an Acura Service technician) inadvertently discovered that he was causing long-term damage to his engine with the nitrous (see link below).

A must read for all S/C and Nitrous J32 J35 users (click here)
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
NITROUS DESERVES RESPECT

Nitrous gets no respect because it is relatively cheap. And of course that movie, "Fast and Furious", didn't help to improve the imagine of nitrous either. That movie really did cause the whole ricer stigma to nitrous usage. I see people spending mega money to prepare their car for a proper installation of a turbo or supercharger. But with nitrous, it's slap it on as quickly and haphazardly as possible, then spray and pray. Why? It should not be this way. Nitrous is a bona fide power augmentation method. IT DESERVES RESPECT. A person should be willing to spend the same mega money to prepare for nitrous as they would for either a supercharger or turbo. Nitrous is a beautiful power augmentation method that rightfully deserves it's respectful place among the two other methods, turbocharging and supercharging.

Then there is the lack of sex appeal of the nitrous. The supercharger and turbo have sex appeal....... a mechanical appendage to the engine. Whereas, the nitrous is perceived as a foreign object. This perception produces an attitude of disrespect toward nitrous usage. That somehow the nitrous is not "real" horsepower. I understand the origin of this perception. Humans are programmed by nature to think and feel in certain ways (instinctive). The whole study of Marketing is really a study of how humans behave and react. But, we need to teach ourselves to get past this erroneous outlook toward nitrous.

Many people complain that nitrous is a form of cheating. I agree that it is cheating if the person hides the system during a planned grudge match. But the context of this thread pertains to street encounters. With random street encounters, nitrous is not a form of cheating. Nitrous is just another engine modification. It is just a mod that you have and they don't. However, it's available to everyone. So, it is definitely not cheating.

Then, there is the attitude that nitrous in not "real" horsepower. I don't understand how it is not real You really go to the store and buy it. You really spend time installing it on your car. It really makes power. Nitrous really runs the risk of breaking engine parts like a supercharger or turbocharger. Pro Drag Racing really uses nitrous. Nitrous is used often to break land speed records. How is nitrous not real horsepower?


Someone could make a counterpoint such as this -


My reply would be this-





Then, there is always that rude comment saying -




Acurazine member "RacingHart" summarizes my feelings well with his quote below -




I will concede that nitrous is not "real HP" in that it can not be used endlessly like a turbo or supercharger because the bottle will last only 120 seconds before requiring a refill.

And, I will concede that nitrous is not "real HP" in that it lacks a progressive power delivery ("all bottle, no throttle"). Nitrous is used primarily for straight-line acceleration contest, not as an inexhaustible power increase for everyday driving.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post






THE PERSONAL SIDE - THE DIFFICULT DECISION


I need a new long term project for my car. As sad as it is for me to say, I have reached the end of my TL Diet. Like with the diet, I want another mod that will have me looking forward to driving my car the next day (aka, adrenalin rush). With the diet, I would remove a chunk of weight, and I would enjoy that new found performance for the next few months. When that high wore off, I would look for another chunk of weight to remove to renew that excitement. This is my plan for my nitrous system. The plan is to enjoy developing, tweaking, redesigning, tuning the nitrous system in the following years. At this point in time, my only constraint is having a 100 shot ceiling. I realize that much over 75 shot will be jeopardizing the long term reliability. Plus, using methanol as the supplementary fuel will make more horsepower than just what the given nitrous shot would indicate. For example, a 100 shot of nitrous could probably produce 110-120 horsepower when used with methanol.

I had told myself in the past that I would not use any FI on my TL. But, I have reversed that decision. Life is short and I asked myself which decision would I regret the most: a) using nitrous and breaking my motor/trans -OR- b) not ever exploring "what could have been". The answer was "b". I would regret not ever have exploring what fun I could have with nitrous in my lightweight car. If I break the car, so be it. No regrets.

Now, I am not implying that I am "throwing caution to the wind" and carelessly using nitrous. Just the opposite. My goal is to design and implement the safest nitrous system possible to last with long-term daily usage.

In the years past, I had told myself that I would refrain from doing nitrous on my car. There was just to many known dangers with our TL - Weak 5AT trans, no engine management options, high compression, inadequate injector flow rates, cracked ring lands, snapped connector rods, blown head gaskets. But the lure of the magic juice would never leave my head. For the past two years, I have battled with these demon thoughts in my head. I would always have to tell myself over and over again "no, this is my daily driver, nitrous will break it."

The TL performs so fantastic with winter weather. As long-time readers already know, I am addicted to keeping my car running cool. If a person is addicted to HP in the TL, they better be addicted to keeping the under hood temps as low as possible. Knowing how much the TL engine loves cold induction is what encouraged me to pursue the Nitrous Methanol Injection System..... for the cooling effects.

The cold winter mornings had got me addicted to the crisp performance that those cold temperatures can offer. The TL is so sensitive to ambient temperature, more so than any other car I have ever own. Then, there were those threads on our forum mentioning water/methanol injection. That thought stayed stuck in my memory. "Cool air, methanol, crisp performance, cold air, methanol". Hummm "Nitrous, methanol, CRYOGENIC air !!! Yes, that's the ticket..."

Another aspect that kept driving me to do nitrous is my TL Diet (click here). I kept thinking about how any horsepower that I would add would be multiplied by 33%. If I could add a 50-hp shot of nitrous, that would be equivalent to 67 HP. If I could add a 75-shot to my lightweight TL, this would be equivalent to a 100-shot. If my lightweight TL could have a total of 350 whp, this would be equivalent to it having 465 whp. Too irresistible !!!!

With the helpful advise that we all have received from "I Hate Cars", I felt comfortable that our TL could live under the influence of nitrous if detonation could be monitored and prevented.

The more that I tried to convince myself to *not* do nitrous, the more that I had become convinced that it was able to be done with relative safety. All of my previous objections against the nitrous began to fad away as each objection was met with plausible solutions. "If I did this, then this would allow that. If I do it this way, then this weakness could be worked around..."

One of these initial hurdles was the automatic transmission. This is why I pursued the feasibility of the Racing ATF (click here). If the racing ATF had not worked, I probably would not had pursued the nitrous.

I was unable to convince myself to *not* do nitrous any longer. It had to be done ! No regrets I promised myself. If I don't attempt the nitrous, it will become a regret in my life for not attempting it. If I do the nitrous and I break my TL, it will be just another fun chapter in my life... but no regrets for not trying it.

With regards to not having regrets in life, I realize that I have just a few more years remaining to enjoy life. I kiss my wife on the forehead at least once a day just as a reminder that this could be our last day together. This is why you see a 50-year-old guy racing his stripped-down TL on Acurazine. This is what makes me happy in life. I want to experience and enjoy the modern aspects of nitrous (methanol, gauges, mother bottles) while I am still healthy, able, and before I die. If I blow-up my TL, I don't care. The car is replaceable. My opportunity to enjoy life is not replaceable. Our life is a one-time event for a limited time only.

With regards to my nitrous background, nitrous is not a new topic to me. Twenty-three years ago, I had used nitrous extensively. I would drag race against "trailered" race cars and win while I was spraying a 175-HP shot. My hotrodded Z28 IROC-Z Camaro (see pics below) was a 13.1 second car (track verified) without the nitrous. Nitrous was my specialty. While I was in college, I even wrote a college research paper on the automotive power augmentation usage of nitrous oxide. Nitrous was my life, nitrous was my passion.




I had used a NOS(Holley) brand plate system (pic above) back in those days. The system had a 225 shot maximum. The highest that I ever used was 175 shot.

Back in those days (23 years ago), we did not have the Internet. I did however have an annual subscription to every hot-rodding magazine that there was - SuperChevy, HotRod, Popular HotRodding, CarCraft, and probably one or two more that I have now forgotten. Back then, the NOS brand was the only mainstream nitrous company. And, that is the brand that I used back then. Twenty three years ago, we (the common street racers) did not have things like nitrous purge, bottle warmers, EGT gauges, wideband gauges, engine knock monitors, mother bottles, exotic fuels such as methanol. I am fifty years old. I plan to enjoy these modern things before my time runs out.





Above - Here is a pic of my 1985 IROC-Z. I purchased it new in 1985.






Above - The next day after going the track.







Above - Ready for heading out to the illegal street racing much later that night. Full racing slicks (no tread grooves) on the rear.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
HEALTH HAZARDS OF METHANOL


Please be aware that methanol is a health risk. Prolonged exposure over time could have accumulative effectives on the body, depending on the severity of the exposure.

This is not meant to scare anyone away from using pure methanol. On the contrary, this warning is meant to help anyone that wishes to use methanol to use proper care when handling methanol.

Just follow some basic guidelines and you will be fine.

1) Vent the methanol fuel cell to the exterior of the vehicle.
2) If the fuel cell is mounted in the interior (including trunk), periodically verify that the fuel cell fittings and lid are not leaking. Leaks will produces vapors that you will breath.
3) Run the methanol line outside, along the undercarriage, following the oem fuel lines.
4) Do not allow methanol to make contact with your skin. I would recommend wearing gloves.
5) Do not allow methanol to splatter in your eyes. I recommend wearing safety glasses.
6) Avoid breathing the methanol fumes. I recommend having a fan nearby to create a breeze to blow the fumes away from you when filling your fuel cell.

The quote/extract below is from "The hidden danger in home biodiesel production" (click here)




The quote/extract below is from "What is Methanol Poisoning?" (click here)






Many sources hint that it is the methanol vapors/fumes that are the most dangerous form of contact (other than drinking it). That is, the vapors are more harmful than contact with the liquid.

Exposure is cumulative, depending on the severity of the exposure. I read one source (click here) that indicated that the body will expel small amounts of methanol absorbed into the blood stream. The body is able to handle these small amounts. Once the exposure concentration exceeds the rate at which the body is able to expel it, then the methanol begins to accumulate inside the body (aka, cumulative), thus leading to methanol poisoning.



Before we leave the topic of methanol safety, I want to discuss one more thing.

The dedicated fuel pump for the NMI should be mounted on the exterior of the car. Perhaps under the floorboard somewhere. It is very easy to unknowingly suffer methanol poisoning from a leaky pump system. Plus knowing that a likely cause of pump failure is a leaking pump, I feel that it is very unwise to mount the pump anywhere in the interior. And, I consider the trunk as being part of the interior. There is a direct air interchange between the cabin and the trunk.

These pumps do not like to get wet. Too much dampness is a common reason for failure with these pumps. So, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Just try to pick a spot that you think would keep it somewhat dry when mounted outside or under the car.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
UNOFFICIAL TRADEMARK

The Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI) is basically a wet nitrous system that uses a dedicated fuel cell and a dedicated pump. The sole supplementary fuel for the nitrous is pure methanol.

For anyone wishing to duplicate the "Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI)" and to claim it as such, one shall include ALL of the following features and components to ensure the safest possible implementation - pure methanol as the sole supplementary fuel for the nitrous, dedicated fuel cell for supplementary methanol, dedicated fuel pump of same brand and same model as used by Inaccurate, custom burst panel, IAT Sensor relocation, nozzle located 16 inches from throttle body, nozzle located such that leaked methanol will drain away from engine, RPM Window Switch (3500-6400 RPM), Throttle Position Switch, Fuel Pressure Safety Switch, Wideband air/fuel gauge, Racing ATF (Amsoil or Redline), colder spark plugs, two nitrous solenoids in series, 100 HP or less shot, the technical skills to properly install the system, and the technical skills to continually tune the nitrous/methanol ratio to maintain a 11.0 - 12.0 AFR as seen on the wideband gauge.

Right to make revisions is reserved. Most recent revision will prevail.

If someone wishes to refer to a nitrous system with some aspects similar to the NMI System and the said system failed to incorporate all of the features and components stated above, I respectfully ask the person to not imply or refer to the said incomplete system as an authentic Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI). If desired, a person can refer to said incomplete system as "similar to the NMI System".

The intent of this trademark is to prevent someone from partially incorporating some design concepts of the NMI System and then stating that the NMI harmed their car.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
LAMBDA


For those advanced tuners that might be reading this, let's talk about how the wideband gauge can be used to read the methanol mixture. Although the ideal a/f ratio for a nitrous/gasoline mixture is 12.1, the nitrous/methanol has an ideal a/f ratio of 5.6. Can a normal wideband be used to gauge the methanol mixture? The answer is yes, no problem. How? Because of lambda. The nitrous/gasoline lambda and the nitrous/methanol lambda are nearly identical. The ideal nitrous/gasoline lambda is 0.82. The ideal nitrous/methanol lambda is 0.86.




The wideband is measuring lambda. The scale on the face of the gauge is really irrelevant. Just like those old fashion thermometers that had a reading of the Fahrenheit scale and a reading for the Celsius scale on opposing sides (see pic above). It is up to the person to either use the Fahrenheit scale or the Celsius scale. This is the same case with the wideband gauge reading the lambda. So, my ideal nitrous/methanol mixture would be 12.7 (0.86 x 14.7) on the gauge's face.

I am NOT saying that the methanol runs at 12.7. I am saying that the needle on the wideband will be pointing at 12.7.

As a side note, the nitrous/methanol lambda of 0.86 mentioned above is not what is really used. Because the engine can tolerate a rich mixture of methanol (unlike gasoline) with no loss of power, the actual mixture is fatter than the theoretical ideal of 0.86 lambda.

SOURCE: Lambda Calculations (click here)

Some extra reading -
Lambda vs Fuel Mix (click here)
Lambda Verse AF ratio (click here)
Will injecting water/methanol mix affect afr? (click here)
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
RECOMMENDED READING






I highly, highly, highly recommend this book (click here).

"Nitrous Oxide Performance Handbook"
By Jeff Hartman










On the other hand, I very much advise anyone to use caution with any books written by Trevor Langfield (pictured below).
The same applies to Trevor Langfield's forum, Wizards of NOS (don't click here). The book and forum does contain some refreshing outlooks on nitrous. However, there is a lot of biased information too. If you visit his forum, use caution and tread lightly.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
PICS OF MOUNTING THE BOTTLE

















To mount the bottle, I needed to make a set of rails (pics above) to allow the bracket to sit level. The "driveshaft" tunnel (as a figure of speech) has many irregular humps along it's length. Without the rails, the front bracket would angle differently than the rear bracket. The home-made rails ensures that the two halves of the bracket will sit parallel to each other.





In pic above, all fasteners used to mount bracket are Grade 8. Purchased from BoltDepot (click here).
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
PICS OF THE GAUGES






Pic below - From outside of driver-side door at daytime.





Pic below - From outside of driver-side door at night.





Pic below - From standing behind car.





Pic below - From driver's seat.





Pic below - The gauges are identified below.
Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
PICS OF THE GAUGE INSTALLATION







The AutoMeter Gauge Mounting Cups PN# 2204 (click here) were a big help with mounting the gauges.







INSTALLATION OF THE KNOCK MONITOR















INSTALLATION OF THE WIDEBAND GAUGE


















INSTALLATION OF THE EGT GAUGE














PICS OF DEDICATED METHANOL FUEL CELL









I discovered that the tanks sold by DevilsOwn, Snow, and AIS can be purchased direct from U.S. Plastic Corp. (click here) for 1/3 of the price.

I purchased many different tanks from US Plastic. I could never make up my mind. I thought I had decided on the 5 quart size. Ordered several of those to hack on. After that shipments arrive, I change my mind to the 6 quart size. Then order several of the 6-qt tanks to hack on.

Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
WEIGHT IMPLICATIONS TO THE TL DIET


Obviously, the weight implications of adding a nitrous system to my car weighed heavily on my mind (pun intended ). It bothers me greatly to add anything to my car to weigh it down. In the beginning, this concern nearly made me to not pursue the nitrous. The thought of that heavy bottle sitting there, creating ugly inertia, bugged me a lot. On the other hand, the thought of the promised 465 whp and 460 ft.lbs. torque using "tl diet" equivalent numbers quickly outweighed the weight disadvantage. To ease the pain, I promised myself that I would try extra hard to find stuff to remove from the car to compensate for any added weight from the nitrous system.

As I was mounting the bottle, I took the time to remove all of the carpeting. Wow, I was very surprised and happy to find that the carpeting weighed 24.0 lbs. Whoop !!! That pays (weight wise) for the whole 10 lb filled bottle, which is the vast majority of the weight from the nitrous system.






WEIGHT
-------------------------------
2.7 Gauges (0.4 "Phormula" + 1.4 "3 gauges (egt, afr, n20, 3cups)" + 0.7 "afr LC-1 controller" + 0.2 "wiring")
5.1 Methanol pump (just pump by itself)
1.7 Methanol tank empty
17.5 Nitrous bottle empty and brackets (Nos bracket and elbow bracing)
10.0 Nitrous liquid
8.0 Methanol liquid
0.5 Window Switch
0.5 Tach Signal Driver
-------------------------
46.0 Total weight of nitrous system
-24.1 Carpet Removal
--------------
21.9 Gained Weight that is still uncompensated for















COST



With the money that I spent ($3600 to date) to do my Nitrous Methanol Injection (NMI), I have come close to the price of the CT Supercharger. I know that many readers will be asking "why didn't you just get the s/c?" The problem with that question is that the question implies that the s/c is better than the NMI. I value nitrous more than supercharging or turbocharging. I love nitrous. I would had done the NMI versus the s/c or turbo even if the s/c or turbo was half the price of the NMI.






PARTS LIST & PRICES (INCLS SHIPPING)


BoltDepot, assortment of fasteners (click here) = $20
Reid Supply Company, assortment of threaded inserts (click here) = $68
Oem gaskets for removing intake runners for knock sensor = $124
Innovate LC-1 Wideband Gauge (click here) = $297
AutoMeter Gauge Mounting Cups PN# 2204 (click here) = $61
Defi EGT Gauge PN# 6803(click here) = $236
Phormula KS-3 Knock Monitor (click here) = $272
AutoMeter Nitrous Pressure Gauge PN# 6974 = $240 (click here)
AutoMeter Wiring Harness PN# 5223 = $33 (click here)
NX Blow Down Tube PN# 11708 = $22 (click here)
NX Blow-off Fitting PN# 11709 = $26 (click here)
NX Pressure Gauges For Two Bottles PN# 15508 = $58 (click here)
Generic brand Methanol Tank PN# 8849 = $12 (click here)
Generic brand Unvented Cap for Methanol Tank PN# 11490 = $3 (click here)
Metal Mesh Filter for Filler Neck = $20 (click here)
A&D Weighing Digital Scale PN# SK-20KR = $169 (click here)
Wilson V-Force Nozzle PN# 308001 = $83 (click here)
NX 10-Lb Nitrous Bottle (Two Bottles) PN# 11100 = $452 (click here)
NOS Brand Bottle Bracket Hinged Alumminum PN# 14140 = $126 (click here)
NOS Brand Nozzle Mounting Kit PN# 17283 = $12 (click here)
Harris Speed Stainless Steel Nitrous Nozzle Retaining Nut PN# HSW-NZL-NUT-SS = $20 (click here)
AlcoholInjectionSystems 250 PSI Water Methanol Injection Pump PN# 1001 = $116 (click here)
DashDyno Performance Logger and Data Logger PN# A-500 = $330 (click here)
Mother Bottle from AirGas (including 64 lbs N20 + Delivery Charge) = $503
MSD RPM Window Switch PN# 8956 = $81 (click here)
MSD RPM Modules (3000 Range) for Window Switch PN# 87431 = $27 (click here)
MSD RPM Modules (6000 Range) for Window Switch PN# 8746 = $28 (click here)
MSD Tach Driver PN# 8913 = $85 (click here)
MSD High Current Relay PN# 8960 = $30 (click here)






CURRENT STATUS


Currently underway. I have no deadlines set. My only deadline is finishing it before the summer heat returns, which is April.

I have purchased most of the components already. This project was officially started on March 13, 2010. Up to this point in time, the bulk of my time was spent researching and designing the system. When I say researching, please don't think that I am a newbie to nitrous.

In the beginning, my estimated time to completion, minus tuning, was approximately six months. But the summer heat pushed back this timeline even further. Plus, I am anal, so it takes me a long time to complete things... got to research and decide if the project is even feasible in the first place, got to research stuff, got to find the best place to order stuff, got to take my time installing it, etc.





FUTURE UPDATES


Please do not be looking for drag strip timeslips. I will never take my car to the strip for two reasons. I am too lazy to set in line for hours for just a few runs, which would probably result in tire spin and produce poor ETs. And, I highly doubt that my car would pass the tech inspection. However, you can expect plenty MPH-versus-Time data from the DashDyno. From the MPH-versus-Time data, and comparing that with magazine (road test) data, we can get a rough estimate of my 1/4-mile ET. At least with my onboard performance meter, I can easily and quickly make many back-to-back attempts at hooking-up, unlike being at a race track, to get something reflective of the car's true potential.

I will probably purchase another brand of performance meter just for the fun of it in the future.

I will be posting detailed information and pictures of how to install the Window Switch and TPS Switch. Also, pics and discussion of the backfire burst panel installation. Pics of the IAT Sensor being relocated. Pics and discussion of the plumbing (hoses). And more. Stay tuned...














"I'll be back"... with more updates !!!
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:45 AM
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Arrow Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

Repped, please keep this going!

This information opens a whole new realm of opportunity for me when I get to it..

Last edited by Russianred; 03-22-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:07 PM
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

Horry Morry that thorough! Great info here
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:39 PM
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

That guy REALLY knows his **** too. If you have time, look up some of the other articles he wrote.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:46 PM
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

Really nice collection of info. Def gonna read it when i get out of class.......or maybe while i'm in class
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:55 PM
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

3600?

like anyone on here is going to pay that muck for a diluted nitrous system

hell, i could build a really mild turbo build and have it realiable for that price


IMO, not sticky worthy
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:20 PM
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

Matt......I'm not peddling his ****....I posted it because it answers pretty much any question a noob could have about nitrous.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:52 PM
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Arrow Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

LOL Matt, you really are the resident asshole.. This sh*t isn't set in stone for the way it needs to be put together, but the theory is rock solid for the way it needs to work as far as outcomes. Put it together any way you want, for free even if you are a bargain hunter and you get lucky.

Akoutmos, I have been reading this during class already lol!

I'll post it again just because we are on this topic... Visit www.nitrousforum.com for all your additional technical and detailed nitrous needs. great community with the sole focus of nitrous, with the members being as nice as we are towards each other here on 6GA. I've been on there for a while now.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:04 PM
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

Call me an asshole, it really doesn't phase me

the guy knows his stuff, but i don't recall that many nitrous questions being asked on here to warrant an entire stickied thread that was copied over from another forum. but hey, thats just me
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:03 PM
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Arrow Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about N2O, ITT

I was only half kidding, but again, you missed the point of what I was trying to say. You were talking about price, which is what my response was towards, not anything to do with stickies. But I agree, it probably shouldn't be a sticky.

However, this doesn't JUST have to do with nitrous, and it's new and recently discovered information which has a lot of potential, regardless of how many people are interested. Maybe if it WAS a sticky people would actually be bold enough to try this correctly.
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