Help! 98 Accord "lurching" right at 4000 RPMs

sb001

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what's the compression?

need psi, like a compression tester, it threads in the spark plug hole

I did the compression test earlier in the thread, got readings way above what they were supposed to be (around 175-180 psi)

But, I realized afterward that I had not held the throttle wide open when I did the test- I jut pushed the gas pedal a little bit. This might explain the weird readings- I will do the test again and post back with the results.
 
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sb001

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My 2002 5spd has the same issue. Leaks a little out the back of the block and burns oil. I put in a quart every 7-10 days.

From the block up is less than a year old on the motor. Purchased new from Honda. I was quoted $2300 to go in and fix it. $12 a month suits me fine until I either sell the car or swap the engine.

$2300? Wow so i assume they thought it was something other than the head gasket?? I found the same thing when I checked around the engine block after the VTEC problem that started this thread- I found a lot of oil residue along the back of the engine block. But, i figured this was probably due to my having removed the head cover before and not replacing the gasket when I put it back. So I replaced the gasket (as mentioned earlier in this thread) and ever since there has been no sign of leaking out around the gasket, I almost HAVE to be burning it- but my compression tests seem to check out OK (actually way above what Honda lists as correct compression-- they list around 140psi, my tests showed 175-180psi.)
None of this makes any sense at all- it seems to drive great, good acceleration, nothing that would indicate something is really wrong. I guess I better keep a case of oil on hand at all times..
 

Varnell

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I don't remember what he said was wrong. I stopped listening when I heard $2300 since I can get a low mileage F23 for less than a grand and come out ahead.

Likewise, my car drives great in every way. Just keep an eye on the oil once a week.
 

xci.ed6

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If you have good compression, and no leaks, but it goes away:

compression uses 2 parts the bore and the top piston rings, 1 and 2. If you get good numbers, rings are good, and bore is good

Oil control uses the bottom ring and the bore, we know the bore is good, then the ring is bad. Most of the time it's fine, just full of gunk. Run some sea foam in the gas, keep an eye on oil, it seeps down to the ring and cleans the gunk out. Leaving deposits in oil, so keep an eye on it getting dirty.

Your other, unlikely but possible, is 'blow by' blowing oil with it, so your P-ositive C-rankcase V-entilation system. Valves, hoses, catch tank. Make sure it's clean.
 

sb001

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If you have good compression, and no leaks, but it goes away:

compression uses 2 parts the bore and the top piston rings, 1 and 2. If you get good numbers, rings are good, and bore is good

Oil control uses the bottom ring and the bore, we know the bore is good, then the ring is bad. Most of the time it's fine, just full of gunk. Run some sea foam in the gas, keep an eye on oil, it seeps down to the ring and cleans the gunk out. Leaving deposits in oil, so keep an eye on it getting dirty.

Your other, unlikely but possible, is 'blow by' blowing oil with it, so your P-ositive C-rankcase V-entilation system. Valves, hoses, catch tank. Make sure it's clean.


OK just for peace of mind, I'll try the compression test again tomorrow (correctly holding throttle wide open this time) and post results.

But, if the compression still turns out good, my main question is:

how many cans of SeaFoam should I try-- without seeing any change-- until I know for sure that it isn't helping? I have already tried 3, and each can cost around $8- can't afford to keep spending lots of cash on something that ends up not really helping..
 

xci.ed6

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IDK, my car went from burning ~3/4qt per LOF @ 3k miles to 1/4qt@~8k miles.

with 3 cans

my mileage between changes vary because I keep an eye on quality between changes.

keep an eye on consumption, you should see a decrease over time. If you get no or little change check the pcv system.

i guess the directions say you can add it to oil, but i've never tried this.

oh, I'm running 10w40 castrol sythetic, good brand I found, used it for 10k mile warranty changes! 10w40 because I use it in my motorcycles, one that rev's to 14krpm! (Honda 599 / cb600f6 / Hornet 600) so I was more worried about durability than MPG.
 
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sb001

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OK, I think I might have stumbled upon the actual problem here.
This evening I did a good root around the engine and found lots of oily deposits and residue on and around the timing belt cover- particularly the lower back side- and on body rails etc around that area. The oil seemed relatively fresh--dried but fresh. (would add a picture but this site won't let me for some reason.)
So I did internet searches for accord oil leaks around the timing belt cover, and found something particularly interesting. Apparently on 5th generation and 6th generation accords, the balance shaft seal is prone to leakage due to the seal tending to wander out of its mounting hole-- in some cases (particularly 5th gen accords) the seal can pop out altogether causing a huge sudden loss of oil into the timing belt area. From what I can gather the balance shaft seal is not "peened" to help it stay in its location so it works its way outward over a period of time. Honda actually caught this problem later and created a retainer plate that bolts on around the seal to keep it in place (here is the Amazon ad for the seal and the retainer plate):

http://www.amazon.com/APDTY-Replacement-1998-1999-1990-2002-1995-1998/dp/B00C6KIAR2/ref=au_as_r?ie=UTF8&Make=Honda|59&Model=Accord|751&Year=1998|1998&n=15684181&newVehicle=1&s=automotive&vehicleId=1&vehicleType=automotive


BUT, from what I can gather, there was never any official recall or service bulletin for this problem. So, unless you actually had your timing belt replaced by a Honda dealer at some point, who knew about the issue, chances are whoever replaced the belt was unaware of this retainer plate needing to be installed.
The previous owner of my accord was a mechanic, so he replaced the timing belt himself at around 115,000 miles, and probably replaced the seals, but I'd be willing to bet he did not install the retainer plate to fix this problem. So sometime in the next couple weeks whenever i get a chance, I am going to remove the timing belt cover, take a look and see if this might be the problem. It actually makes a LOT of sense that this could be causing my oil leak. I'll post back with results of whatever I find.
If anyone reading this thread has the same oil leak issue, look around your timing belt cover and see if you spot significant oily residue around the cover particularly around the back or bottom areas. If so this might very well be the problem.
 
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sb001

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Here's what I'm talking about:


Balance shaft seal popped out:

Photo010.jpg





Balance shaft seal installed with retainer plate in place:

Photo012.jpg





Do a google search on this-- lots of testimonies from 5th/6th gen accord owners about leaks (in some cases sudden catastrophic leaks) due to this issue.
 

J0hnalex

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Has this problem before. U need to change your oil, check your oil and if that dosent work you have to remove your Vtech solenoid. There are 3 passages on the f23's and f22's I believe. Once you have that off look at the last passage, there is a screen. It's ment to filter out gunky oil. Clean that! That's what's causing your problem. The solenoid is kinds of hard to get off. I had to take off my intake Manifold to get to the last few bolts. But good luck! I'm like 95% sure this is your problem!
 

sb001

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Has this problem before. U need to change your oil, check your oil and if that dosent work you have to remove your Vtech solenoid. There are 3 passages on the f23's and f22's I believe. Once you have that off look at the last passage, there is a screen. It's ment to filter out gunky oil. Clean that! That's what's causing your problem. The solenoid is kinds of hard to get off. I had to take off my intake Manifold to get to the last few bolts. But good luck! I'm like 95% sure this is your problem!

Already done this- posted in the first page of this thread.

How would this cause excessive oil consumption?
 
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