Ground Control coilover sleeves - discussion

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KanomNom
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Hey Chris ill just post here so everyone can see instead of pming.

Do what truwarrior said and get some custom rates, i beleive the default rates might be a little soft for your needs. I'm pretty sure they will ride alot better with custom rates compared to your sportlines.

And I also haven't rode in any other spring strut combo on a CG chassis. But I've been in other cars that were on Tiens, blue tok with springs or gc sleeves, Nex coils, and such.
 

SykVSyx

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I'm wondering if fully adjustable coils were set to nearly the softest setting it would turn out the same.

I think it depends on the coils.

I have asked questions/read reviews on a pretty wide range, and the ones that have the dampening capability are still fairly stiff.

I remember asking Bill about his experience with this setup compared to a full coil, and he said it is about the same, just that he upgraded the springs.

Tein SS are some of the softest ones out there, but I think for the closet thing to full coils, Chris, the GC's are probably the best bet.

To upgrade the springs was FAIRLY reasonable. I think it's similar springs to the F2 Type 2.5
 
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99accord boi

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wat you might want to do is contact eibach (they only accept calls) and ask wat the spring rate is in ur sportlines
then ur going to have to talk to mark at ground control for a set of sleeves with custom spring rates
also i would suggest going +1or 2 kg/cm on the grounds controls being that they are not progressive as the sportlines are
also i fell for u on the bad back situation i had to set my type 2s on the softest setting so my dad could drive the car to work for 2 months
he loved my gc kyb set up tho
 

Mikey

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Buddy of mine is an engineer for this kind of stuff and here's a PM I got from him...


To start, I would find out what the sport spring rates and the off-the-shelf ground control spring rates are.

Lets pretend the Sportlines are 350F 230R (I have no idea really). You can't just buy ground controls with the same rates and expect it to ride the same. The reason for this is that the Sportline springs are progressive, and the ground control springs are linear... and a 400lb progressive spring is going to ride softer than a 400lb linear spring always.

So, common sense would say to get ground controls with a rate that equals the inital rate of the Sportlines...but the manufacturer isn't going to give you the info you'll need to figure that out.

The point here, is if you're just comparing numbers, you want to get ground controls with a slightly softer rate than the Sportlines. Not too soft though, because then you risk bottoming out. Technically you want to go softer based on a percentage(there's a way to come up with a conversion factor, but again, need manufacturer info.) Off the top of my head, I would say go about 50lbs softer front and rear if going from Sportlines to ground controls.

Ground controls offer adjustability that the Sportlines do not, so they are a better setup. One thing I would suggest though is helper springs.

On a "full coilover" setup, the bottom mount rotates to change ride height without affecting preload. With a Koni Yellow/GC setup, you don't have that luxury. So, when the suspension goes into any droop at all, the spring can become loose. Here's a picture for reference. You can see the helper springs on the bottom.

Other than that, you would have to do a lot of measuring and get the car on scales if you want to target a specific ride frequency...but I'm guessing you aren't that serious.

I think ordering them a bit softer than what the Sportlines are rated at is a good idea.
 
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RedRyder

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Do what truwarrior said and get some custom rates, i beleive the default rates might be a little soft for your needs. I'm pretty sure they will ride alot better with custom rates compared to your sportlines.

So you are saying the default rates for the GC’s are softer than Sportlines? I would think that the GC spring would be firmer, since they are linear springs and Sportlines are progressive. I am okay with how the Sportlines ride, and something a little firmer would be okay…I am just trying to figure out how much firmer the GC’s are with default rates, or if I should try to get softer rates.

Tein SS are some of the softest ones out there, but I think for the closet thing to full coils, Chris, the GC's are probably the best bet.

To upgrade the springs was FAIRLY reasonable. I think it's similar springs to the F2 Type 2.5

I don’t want these to ride like coilovers. I want to know what I would need to do to get them to ride like Sportlines, or slightly firmer than.

wat you might want to do is contact eibach (they only accept calls) and ask wat the spring rate is in ur sportlines
then ur going to have to talk to mark at ground control for a set of sleeves with custom spring rates
also i would suggest going +1or 2 kg/cm on the grounds controls being that they are not progressive as the sportlines are
also i fell for u on the bad back situation i had to set my type 2s on the softest setting so my dad could drive the car to work for 2 months
he loved my gc kyb set up tho

You think Eibach would tell me that? Yeah I am going to give both them and GC a call and tell them what I’m trying to achieve. Since GC’s use Eibach springs they should be familiar with Sportlines and be able to tell me what kind of rates I would want.

So you are saying you would add 1 or 2 kg/cm to whatever the default GC rates are? Does that firm them up or soften them. The goal here is to try and get as close a ride to my Sportlines as possible, or go a little firmer at most.
 

99accord boi

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Buddy of mine is an engineer for this kind of stuff and here's a PM I got from him...




I think ordering them a bit softer than what the Sportlines are rated at is a good idea.

beat ya to it lol:action-smiley-042:

You think Eibach would tell me that? Yeah I am going to give both them and GC a call and tell them what I’m trying to achieve. Since GC’s use Eibach springs they should be familiar with Sportlines and be able to tell me what kind of rates I would want.

So you are saying you would add 1 or 2 kg/cm to whatever the default GC rates are? Does that firm them up or soften them. The goal here is to try and get as close a ride to my Sportlines as possible, or go a little firmer at most.


no i mean add 1/2 kg over the sport lines progressive spring rate

with linear (ground control) ur going to need to compensate for the increase in spring rate per distance the progressive spring compresses
did that make any sense? lol
 
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Mikey

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Chris, would you say the ultimatley goal is to get GCs that ride like Sportlines?

That way they'd ride and handle like the Sportlines but have the adjustability.
 

RedRyder

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Chris, would you say the ultimatley goal is to get GCs that ride like Sportlines?

That way they'd ride and handle like the Sportlines but have the adjustability.

Overall yes that's what I'm driving at here, but since they are two different types of springs I realize there would be some variance…seems like the GC spring would have to be either slightly softer or slightly firmer. And if I had to choose one of those, I’d go with slightly firmer.

But how much more softer? Does 1kg/cm = 50lbs over all?

Yeah, and in addition to your question, does adding or subtracting make the rate firmer or softer, etc?
 
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