Recommended Oil

dorkiedoode

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Dude, avalons have a recall for sludge build up in their engine. The cylinder heads run hot, when the car is off, the oil is pooled under the rocker covers to lube the cam lobes upon cold start up. If your oil is old it will start sludging everywhere and get hard. It will eventually clog oil passages and ruin ur engine.

The remedy was to be very meticulous about oil changes and use a engine flush every 20,000 miles.


None the less, even the accord will build up sludge, if your only changing your filters every other oil change. I mean, napa gold are great filters. but are you that broke that you cannot afford the $6 for a new filter???? Maybe its time to sell one so you can properly maintain atleast one vehicle.
thanks for your opinion. my UOA tells me otherwise.

properly maintained? I guess going over 150k on my accord means i'm doing a really bad job. see you at 200k.
 
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dorkiedoode

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^ :ugh2:

Filter every other oil change? Any good reason why? Don't say to save money... you're only investing like $12 an oil change every 4-5 months.

Dino oil cannot hold as much dissolved heavy metals or carbon and whatever other toxins the engine produces. Also, it doesn't resist thermal breakdown as well as a full synthetic. Once oil reaches its maximum capacity of toxins it starts to form sludge in the engine; it doesn't really lose it's lubrication properties as fast as it gets dirty. 3k changes for dino it normal, 5k for synthetic is normal. I wouldn't push the dino too far.

No pun intend, I know your trying to help and all but is this something you tested before? Anything you can show to explain why dino can only run 3k and synthetic 5k? Have you done any UOA? Not saying that UOA tells you everything but its something. I tend to believe people who has something to show like those guys in BITOG. I took off my value cover to do maintenance such as value adjustments this summer and I don't see any sludge. So this is basically my experience vs yours. I'm no oil expert but show me some facts to change my mind. 3k myth will go on for a long time.

But really, oil is too political. My opinion vs your opinion. Let's not get this too out of hand.
 
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finch13

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No pun intend, I know your trying to help and all but is this something you tested before? Anything you can show to explain why dino can only run 3k and synthetic 5k? Have you done any UOA? Not saying that UOA tells you everything but its something. I tend to believe people who has something to show like those guys in BITOG. I took off my value cover to do maintenance such as value adjustments this summer and I don't see any sludge. So this is basically my experience vs yours. I'm no oil expert but show me some facts to change my mind. 3k myth will go on for a long time.

But really, oil is too political. My opinion vs your opinion. Let's not get this too out of hand.

First off, BITOG forums guys are the same as us... none of them are accredited in any fashion, so I tend to take their word as a grain of salt. BUT, the BITOG main page is full of useful information. I'm not a lubricant engineer or any sort of expert on the subject either.

Second, if you're not seeing any sludge in the upper engine, that's probably a good sign. BUT, you may find it if you dig deeper. I've dug fairly deep in motors that have seen religious 3k dino oil changes and no abuse, with tons of sludge buildup around the cam bearings (GM 3100 OHV V6). Oil can only hold so much particulate and combustion byproducts, it's exactly like putting too much sugar in water and watching it sit at the bottom. Just because you don't have any sludge at the top doesn't mean gravity didn't pull it to the bottom.

Third, my argument for synthetic oils. I don't think I need to write on and on about how synthetics have plenty of benefits beyond dino oil. Synthetics have been proven time and time again to have better shear ratings, better long term ability to retain its viscosity range, less variance in viscosity modifier size and density, etc. I don't think it's a mystery to the general public that the majority of automobile manufacturers and motorsport teams have moved beyond dino oil and have switched to synthetic. I shouldn't forget to mention Honda Genuine Oil is manufactured by Mobil.

Fourth, telling us you get UOAs done tells us nothing and it's basically useless information to us. Did you get a VOA done of each type of oil you use to establish a baseline analysis of the oil? Have you consecutively gotten UOAs done over a period of years and/or consistent OCIs? I will agree, depending on the situation, a 3k mile OCI on dino may be too often, but it's a nice guarantee knowing that you're not pushing the oil past it's usability as a lubricant and a detergent. IF you had established a baseline analysis and used the same oil every time (read: "I use the cheapest dino oil at Wal-Mart") I would think your UOA statement had some credibility. The fact is, you've introduced too many variables for any UOA to have any sort of cold, hard evidence.

Fifth, oil pricing is basic economics for the most part (if you exclude the politics). Quality products cost more, competition reduces the likelihood of a monopoly, large companies are able to direct more revenue towards QA and R&D, etc, etc. Companies are founded to make money by offering a product or service, do you really think "El Cheapo" dino oil has any sort of strict QA or R&D standards and is still capable of being a profitable business? No. The only reason they are in business is because there is still a demand for a lower grade product.

Sixth, I'm going to assume you're somewhat of a car guy since you're registered on here, it at least shows you care somewhat. Being a car enthusiast myself, it boggles my mind why people use the lowest performing maintenance products. OEM fluids are engineered to work with a narrow range of vehicles, whereas aftermarket fluids are engineered to satisfy the needs of a broad range of makes and models. Cough up a few extra bucks now to save more money down the road. Buy the Honda ATF Z-1 or the MTF or the PS fluid or the coolant. Sure, you can get by using the generic stuff, but doesn't it make you feel better that you are protecting your investment and ensure continued reliability?

Lastly, I hope I didn't come off as too much of an asshole. It's a big pet peeve of mine when the quality of information on this forum isn't questioned and I hate seeing people give out bas advice (not that you did, just in general), so I'm glad you asked for more info and my opinion.

- Brandon
 

HondaLuver83

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thanks for your opinion. my UOA tells me otherwise.

properly maintained? I guess going over 150k on my accord means i'm doing a really bad job. see you at 200k.

You can half a$$ a honda or a toyota and make it well passed 150K, doesnt mean the engines condition would have been nearly as good if were properly maintained.

I tend to believe master engineers than something you have read on a forum or any oil analysis you had. So if you can provide the evidence proving to me, and us, that your practices are better than ours, I'd love to be enlightened.

PS, Id like to see a picture under your rocker covers of your avalon, unless you have cleaned them already......haha
 
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BlkCurrantKord

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Accord - 5w30 (Valvoline) and Fram filter

Subie - 5w30 Synthetic (Mobile one) and oem filter



What I'm gathering from this thread is that everyone has their own personal preferences and opinions about what works. All I know is that the head and bottom end on the accord and friggin clean. No deposits, no sludge, no major staining, etc. Could be from the oil, could be from religious oil changes, who knows. It works, never had a problem, never had a low oil light, I'm gonna keep doing it.
 
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