Intermittent CEL

staples

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Having spent most of the day searching for advice I have resorted to being a newbie and asking you wise individuals. Sorry if you hate posters like me...I promise I'm helpful on every other forum I use!

For the last 5 months my engine light has sporadically been coming on a few minutes into my drive (has become every journey now), sometimes I thought it was when my revs were high (I assumed a VTEC solenoid problem), sometimes when low, however today I noticed when the revs dropped suddenly the light would come on (which would make sense if revs are high as they drop when I inevitably hit traffic), today it came on either when I was riding the clutch gong round a corner or just coming to a stop. (so perhaps oxygen/oil sensor??)
The problem I have is that the check engine light comes off the moment the car is turned off and so I am having trouble getting a reading using the paper clip method, I assume you can't paperclip when the car is on!!! I would get someone to check it but it's expensive in the UK and probably a waste of time if the light doesn't come on anyway?!

Btw contrary to many other internet posts my 1999 LX Accord has the blue 2 pin OBD rather than the brown wide one....I believe the brown one is ODB2...baffled me for ages that one.

Can anyone think of a reason the CEL would only come on into a drive and come off when the engine is turned off? It has never come on when I start the car, well not since the thermo was replaced.
My thermostat went 3 months ago so I replaced it, bloody fiddle for my fat hands, and it has had no overheating problems since, (though don't Honda's run hot!!) though I do sometimes think hmmm, that's a strange feeling when it idles/I stop revving, it doesn't splutter as such but it does feel a tad like it's revving low and some revs perks it up. No problems caused because of it.

I have noticed one other thing that has been prevalent for a while, sometimes in first gear I will accelerate, the car will go, then suddenly the revs will drop to nothing and I'll either have to change to second and rev or take the car out of gear and put it back into first. Works fine after that. This happens very infrequently, perhaps once in every 20 journeys, and only in 1st gear.

So now I am in a horrible position of diagnosing a cheap cars fault and trying not to spend, spend, spend.
My plan of action is -
1. Oil change, needs it desperately (I've been a naughty boy and probably mixed oils...)
2. Get a service from a 'mechanic' friend to change the rocker cover gasket (seems to be oil v v slowly penetrating around the bottom of the rocker) and clean the VTEC solenoid screen...? Ask if he can check the solenoid is working using the 12v clicking method.
3. Find someone with a CEL reader and hope they find something.

As a side note I did just have the exhaust changed (ripped me off, my fault) and it seems to still be blowing a tad so I'll go back and get them have a look....could that be a CEL cause?...

I know this is all vague but perhaps some of you smarties might have an idea/suggestion for me, this is my first Honda and I'm sold. Despite the niggles Honda's are amazing cars and much better than the variety of cars I have had. (I was an accident prone youth).

If you stuck with me this far thank you, and hopefully you might have a suggestion or two....
Feel free to tell me to :STFU: or call me a :untitled:....my don't you guys have some fancy emoticons!
 

xci.ed6

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what's 'paper-clip' method?

Would say getting the code is important, no guessing here.
 

staples

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what's 'paper-clip' method?

Would say getting the code is important, no guessing here.

Cheers for the reply.
You're right there, I assume the code will show even if the CEL doesn't show?
Do diagnostics work with the car on too? Could I use the 'paper-clip' method myself when the car is on, or is that playing with fire...literally?

I followed ericthecarguys method - I'm too new to post links but if you search 'How To Pull Honda Codes Without a Scanner' it's his video. It involves putting a paperclip in the connector and the code flashes on the CEL.
I probably have the wrong connector, there seems to be a lot of conflicting information on which Accords have which connector.

Today I had my oil changed, friend of a friend, who said the car looked clean and fine.
He checked the exhaust and said it was fine too, blaming the blowing on the manufacturing process of the box. We shall see. He only had 20mins to look as he was on his lunchbreak and the garage had paying customers ha.

When I got home I reset the ECU and ran the car for 10-15 minutes and while it had a momentary idle spike and an unusual noise for 30 seconds it ran absolutely fine. I did notice that the radiator fan never came on and that the top radiator hose was very hot while the lower one was cool. When I first changed my thermostat I did so because of this problem, and because the temperature needle spiked to 70-80%. It usually runs at 40%.

In fact I've never noticed the radiator fan coming on, and apart from just before I changed the thermostat but I've never felt/seen the car overheat.

My next plan is to get the car to a good guy my dad knows and ask him to do a diagnostic check, clean some of the sensors (maybe even look at the VTEC gasket), check for vacuum problems and change the rocker gasket (though my mechanic friend didn't seem too concerned about it).
Does that sound like the right sort of request?

Oh and just before my oil change my car dropped revs in 2nd and 3rd gear, I had a short moment when I literally couldn't get any revs for about a second.....every time I spend money on a car something unusual happens!
I either need more money or a better car, I hear it's a worldwide problem.
 

xci.ed6

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I do not know the paper clip thing, sounds like no fire though, if it's the right wires.

I don't know why you would change valve cover gasket unless it's leaking or your doing a valve adjustment.

rev drop also sounds normal (let off the gas) or ecm.

Rad fan only switches on when the engine is hot enough, might be that time of year depending on where you are.
 

staples

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I do not know the paper clip thing, sounds like no fire though, if it's the right wires.

I don't know why you would change valve cover gasket unless it's leaking or your doing a valve adjustment.

rev drop also sounds normal (let off the gas) or ecm.

Rad fan only switches on when the engine is hot enough, might be that time of year depending on where you are.

Cool, I'm probably being OCD on that, thanks. I read a lot of people improving/solving VTEC problems by cleaning/changing their gasket. If it's not broke don't mess with it! The rocker cover isn't really leaking that much, seeping v v slowly is probably the right description.

I think I described the rev drop poorly, I am driving, the rev's drop when I accelerate and nothing engages until I take my foot off the accelerator, change gear and let revs drop completely before accelerating again. Maybe by resetting the ECU it'll be better now.

It's winter so it's cold here in England, maybe the rad is fine but I guess I'm used to other cars always turning their rad fan on especially when the car is stood for 10 minutes. As I said in my original post, I really like my Honda, and my dad's Honda, I never realised how good they were and I think I'm getting used to having a car that works but has some niggles, a big difference to the classic Mini I once had :)

Thanks again for the reply.
 
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staples

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Finally got a code!
Seems I was doing it wrong and I needed to unclip the plastic housing from around the diagnostic port, which is the 2 pin, then stick in the paperclip. Pictures to follow.

After rigorous checking I don't have an OBD2 port despite having a place where it should be. So for all those who have spent too much time pulling carpet and the dash apart some early UK Honda's (mine's a 1999) do not have OBD2 but use the 2 pin method older Honda's used. (under the glove box, don't need to take the glove box out)

My code is 10 (one long flash, nothing else) which is apparently an IAT problem...now I have to find the damned IAT sensor which I'm praying is not at the back of the engine next to the IAC as it appears a nightmare to get to....hopefully it's filthy and I can just clean it....hmmm.
At least my problem seems to be the ECU putting it in limp mode until the CEL comes on and sparking the engine into life. I also bled the cooling system with a friend, loads of bubbles came out so air in the system hasn't been helping, ran perkier since I did that.

Hopefully I can work out whether it's the sensor or something going on with the IAC.

Pics -
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xci.ed6

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Wierd, a obd1 accord...

Anyway, it sounds like your on the right track. A guncked up iacv tripped a code, as it should, so yeah. Start there, examin/clean/retry drivin. Oh, & clear old codes when you work on it.
 

staples

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Wierd, a obd1 accord...

Anyway, it sounds like your on the right track. A guncked up iacv tripped a code, as it should, so yeah. Start there, examin/clean/retry drivin. Oh, & clear old codes when you work on it.

Cheers for the reply, if I get brave and smaller hands I might give it a go....and yup, I know, I am completely baffled by it all. I think in the UK we were late to the OBD2 party!

Well anyway today I spent 2 hours trying to find the IAT and thought I'd check the engine code again, from cold rather than after being driven.

This time I get 1 short flash which is
1 Oxygen Sensor "A" (Primary) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
Turned the car on, still 1 short flash, left it for a bit and checked again, still 1 short flash.
I must have been living life in slow motion before....

So now it's on to plan F...the expensive one, Oxygen sensor, after I check whether it's come loose or something stupid like that.
This thread is pretty dull but as least someone might work out how to get a code from their 6th gen accord with 5th gen engine management!
 

CokeZero

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o2 sensors can be had pretty cheap online. just look at the connector. not sure if the electrical connectors would be different considering you have OBD1. Better safe than sorry.
 

xci.ed6

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Yeah, with a car that old, and 02 sensors that cheap, my 'test' would be to make sure a new one works.
 
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