Guide Me!

The photo noob here could really use some sound advice from you guys. I would like constructive comments and less nonsense. Please keep the information pertinent to the Nikon D60 and the Canon 450D and their respective support systems.

Here's the story (yes, I do have Cliffs on the bottom):

I've been dying to pick up a DSLR for the last couple of months now and have been slowly saving up for one. I'm looking at the 2 most popular introductory models, the Canon 450D and the Nikon D60. I've read reviews and have toyed around with both of them, and I still can't figure out which one I want.

Case for the D60
Because of who I'm employed by, I can get a Nikon D60 with kit 18-55 lens for about $530 brand new - directly from Nikon. I think that's a pretty good deal. That is the only thing that's really making me lean towards the Nikon. Granted, from what I've heard, the color rendition properties of the Nikon is supposedly superior compared to the 450D. It's Auto-ISO abilities is also much more intelligent and produces much better results. I think for landscapes (which I do plan on taking quite a few of), the Nikon with a good quality lens might produce more contrasty-pretty pictures than the Canon.

Case against the D60
I've had a Canon PS (SD750) for a while now, and I can easily just pick up one up and start snapping pictures with a 450D. The learning curve for the Nikon is going to be a bit steeper. My biggest problem with the D60 is the fact that it lacks this bracketing feature (in relation to shutter speed I'm assuming?) which makes taking HDR shots a bit more difficult. It also is lacking an ISO button. It seems like I have to go through a few seperate menus to actually change the white balance and the ISO, whereas on the Canon, there are seperate buttons for both, allowing me to quickly change without having to go through multiple menus and crap.

Case for the Canon 450D
I have a friend who has a 450D with a Canon 24-105 L-series lens. That thing was SHARP. Even better was the fact that I was able to just pick up the Canon and start using it. I could just step in it and it seems natural for me. The Canon is technically more powerful and is definitely more intuitive than the Nikon. And come on now, who wouldn't want a camera that can support a $1000 lens that you can borrow from a friend? But that's just part of the collection accessible. With the 450D, I have a wide variety of lenses that I can borrow, including a few from Canon's L-series.

Case agasint the Canon 450D
The damn thing is pricey. I'm spending about 130-150 more than I would for the Nikon D60. I can get the Nikon right here right now, but not the Canon. And while I do have access to many lenses, they're not mine and I can't just take them at will. I will still have to eventually buy my own, and at that point, it's still going to be more expensive (I get a steep discount on Nikkor lenses as well).

Cliffs
I can get the Nikon D60 (and Nikon lenses) for cheap. I like the Canon 450D quite a bit more and it's a bit more powerful. But I have to pay the price everyone else does. I also have access to many lenses for the EOS whereas I have to buy all the lenses for the Nikon. Which camera would you guys recommend?

i find that canon's are a little more user friendly when it comes to operation, especially if you've had canon P&S background..I went from operating my SD600 straight into operating my 350D and everything just made sense. Then i tried to shoot with a friend's D40 and it took some getting used to.

Personally i'd go canon, but given your nikon discount that might also be a wise way to go..It all depends on your budget. Not to knock Nikon or anything but all of my photographer friends seem to love their Canon's for their quality and easy functionability

pentax k-m or k200d

personally, i just cant handle nikons...everything is weird or in the wrong spot, like sonys.

i wouldnt base my decision on a camera that cant bracket exposures. i mean, seriously...has anyone here even used a full manual camera? the camera is your TOOL, you are using it. dont let a limited camera make all the decisions for you. would you rather have a camera compute the picture (jpg) or have a full-blown comp to do it with (raw)? auto-iso? come on now...your brain can (and should ) compute it better.

the 24-105 doesnt look that great side-by-side with a good prime to be honest, from everything ive read online, its really not that spectacular.

so if you must choose from canikon, this would be my reasoning for the 450:
-better handling
-better controls
-better menus
-more lens choices
-very good results
-better high iso exposures

I was just thinking the same thing with that Nikon. I honestly do find it awkward.

I was shooting with a 85mm prime on a 450D and well, for a noob like me, It's hard getting used to it. Zoom lenses allow me to just zoom in/out instead of having to walk around haha.

The pentax K200D looks like a very nice option. It's much more of a competitor to the Canon 450D than the D60 is for me. But at price range of the Canon 450D, I think I would prefer to get the Canon since all the people I hang around with own some sort of a Canon EOS. C can at least try their lenses before I buy.

I really appreciate you showing me the Pentax option. It really does seem like a really nice option that I am considering now.

ryan s said:

pentax k-m or k200d

personally, i just cant handle nikons...everything is weird or in the wrong spot, like sonys.

has anyone here even used a full manual camera? the camera is your TOOL, you are using it. dont let a limited camera make all the decisions for you. would you rather have a camera compute the picture (jpg) or have a full-blown comp to do it with (raw)? auto-iso? come on now...your brain can (and should ) compute it better.

the 24-105 doesnt look that great side-by-side with a good prime to be honest, from everything ive read online, its really not that spectacular.

so if you must choose from canikon, this would be my reasoning for the 450:
-better handling
-better controls
-better menus
-more lens choices
-very good results
-better high iso exposures

Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said:

1. Nikons are very awkward to use, more for tripod/studio photoghraphy where you actually have a little time to read the manual to figure out where sh!t is in the menu. I even still have trouble figuring out how to use my Nikon N65 35mm, the damn thing has like 10 buttons and I still fidn it awkward. Canons, so easy to use! You can change everything you need to with your right hand without going into a menu (WB, burst, timer, aperture, shutter, etc.)

2. Ryan, I always use full manual unless I'm doing slower action/movement shots where I don't have the time to adjust both aperture and shutter. If it's full out action, program or shutter priority is the way to go.

3. Auto-ISO is BS, unless you are completely dumb. You should ALWAYS shoot in the lowest ISO possible for the shutter speed you need and the aperture you want. I don't even remember the last time I used something besides ISO 100.

4. I agree with all of them, go Canon. The price difference is nothing, especially for a cam under $1000. When you start looking at $3k-$8k cameras, then we'll tell you you're spending too much.

d1blet said:

I was just thinking the same thing with that Nikon. I honestly do find it awkward.

I was shooting with a 85mm prime on a 450D and well, for a noob like me, It's hard getting used to it. Zoom lenses allow me to just zoom in/out instead of having to walk around haha.

The pentax K200D looks like a very nice option. It's much more of a competitor to the Canon 450D than the D60 is for me. But at price range of the Canon 450D, I think I would prefer to get the Canon since all the people I hang around with own some sort of a Canon EOS. C can at least try their lenses before I buy.

I really appreciate you showing me the Pentax option. It really does seem like a really nice option that I am considering now.

Click to expand...

Stop being lazy! hahaha. I've spent many a day walking about 10 miles with all my gear, moving 50 feet closer to the subject won't kill you. ;D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Pentax even makes lenses for their own cameras? The way I see it, Canon/Nikon are the only way to go unless you're a) shooting 35mm, b) have no clue about photography and just went to the store and bought something. Canon lenses are by far the best thing you can by, Nikon comes in a close second. I think a lot of Nikon dudes would buy Nikon-mount Canon lenses if they could.

Haha, I just get annoyed because I have to move about so much to take a shot of a still object. But I guess eventually, I'll know exactly what the focal length is going to be like so I can move into the proper shooting spot without adjusting myself for the next couple of minutes. But my assumption is that not many people use prime lenses to take things in motion anyway...so moving about shouldn't be a concern if the thing you're trying to take a picture of isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I guess a $130 premium over the D60 is well worth it. I'll probably be using the DSLR for years so I might as well get something that I thoroughly enjoy rather than getting the less expensive alternative.

My Canon 300D is over 4 years old.... still using it, still loving it. Makes gorgeous 20x30 poster prints. Only 6.3MP @ 240dpi too.

finch13 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Pentax even makes lenses for their own cameras? The way I see it, Canon/Nikon are the only way to go unless you're a) shooting 35mm, b) have no clue about photography and just went to the store and bought something. Canon lenses are by far the best thing you can by, Nikon comes in a close second. I think a lot of Nikon dudes would buy Nikon-mount Canon lenses if they could.

Click to expand...

they do, most of the time. there are some lenses made by other companies such as tokina, like the 16-50/2.8 and 10-17 fisheye. BUT...pentax uses their SuperMultiCoating which makes them more expensive and much better when they have the pentax brand on them.

pentax may not have the biggest selection of lenses, but they have some of the best. the 43ltd (or was it the 31ltd?) was named one of the best lenses of all time. the DA Limiteds (21mm/40/70) are all pancake lenses so that interests a lot of people.




later, ill find that thread comparing a $700 16-50/2.8 to a $200 50/1.4...the results are pretty definitive in the argument of zooms/primes...