Car stumbles while under load, failed to start a few times.

[schmiddr2]

Not urgent, but would like some help. 1999 I4.

I have been reading many many threads, but have yet to feel I have a conclusive solution.

I bought the car with 173K. Soon after the fuel pump would run even though the car was not turned on; it happens regularly depending on how much gas is in it. I don't think this is related to my other more important issue. Code is P1456 and I have replaced the gas cap.

On to the reason for this thread. It started stumbling upon gentle acceleration or under load 5-6 months ago; at first it was very slight and very infrequent. Now as soon as it warms up a bit it starts to get jerky as I said before; does not do it above about 3K RPM.

A few months ago I was driving and the gauges turned off and I believe the engine did too, then turned right back on in half a second. Then a few days ago it cranked then everything shut down; did it again and same thing; third time it started right up.

I have cleaned the egr as some have recommended for the stumble part, little help but it was not the problem.

This problem is so specific that there must be a specific cause that someone can advise me on what it is. OR, is this multiple issues?

Please. Thanks.

Now more urgent. Please read post #11 on next page.

 

[schmiddr2]

From my reading I have found a thread on the ignition module. Apparently it can have bad solder connections that can cause the car not to start, but I don't have the fuel pump problem that many state is a symptom of a bad ignition module.

Just read this about the fuel pump running,

If you hear it every time, then you can rule out the main relay.

So would imply it is a bad ground. This possible?



Also, the distributor has been listed as a suspect in many stumbling cases. Just kind want to hear some good advice on this before just replacing parts and/or the distributor.

EGR was also one that was mentioned a few times, but as I said I have cleaned it thoroughly.

 

[SKUNKWRKZ]

After reading your post, it sounds like a good place to start troubleshooting would be the ignition.The ignition harness was a recall from Honda and you can have this replaced if it has not been done previously. The harness is cheap (50.00 even if you go buy one) and fairly simple to replace. I would suggest putting as little strain on the switch as possible by just using the key with no key chain first off (and perhaps jiggling the key around to see if you can get it to shut off momentarily). Another question would be do you ever have problems taking the key out or getting the switch to engage? This would be another indicator that the harness needs replacing. However, replacing the harness is really just a band aid for a poorly designed ignition system for our cars IMO. If you search, you will find many threads that describe your symptoms. This really surprised me initially as, I have always thought of the Honda's I have owned previously as bulletproof DD's.

That being said, I have had to replace my harness about once a year during the hot summer months. I assume this is due to the load put on the car's ignition with the radio, ac and other accessories being on (Were these on when the car shut off on you?). As a result, I keep a spare harness in the car just in case. As I am sure you know, heat and electronics do not mix and because of this, I went a step further and installed an MSD external coil as well recently but the "jury" is still out as to whether this alleviated my issue of the harness getting hot enough to fail yet. If you have looked at our distributor (Two companies make them but I believe both have internal coils still), you would have noticed that the coil is packaged internally on the EX's. This is just poor design as it causes MORE unnecessary heat for the wiring inside the dizzy. If it were me, I would go ahead and replace the harness, wires, plugs and the rotor and see where you are. I also replaced my coil with an OEM the first go round and this cured the low RPM stumbling/hesitation and acceleration under load for about the life of the harness I installed at the same time).

 

[schmiddr2]

Thank you. The key works fine and it is not in the switch. I'm still not ruling out the ignition module though.

I see there is no easy answer to my question. I don't understand why these symptoms have so many possible causes. I suppose I will just have to go through everything like everyone else seems to do.

I will start with plugs, then rotor, then wires, then coil.

 

[001Stunna]

Thank you. The key works fine and it is not in the switch. I'm still not ruling out the ignition module though.

I see there is no easy answer to my question. I don't understand why these symptoms have so many possible causes. I suppose I will just have to go through everything like everyone else seems to do.

I will start with plugs, then rotor, then wires, then coil.

what do you mean by stumbles? does it shake? or does it have a hard time going into gear? or...?
and it only does this below 3000rpm?

the gauges going off/on while driving or the car turning off/on on you is possibly the ignition switch.

i'd start with replacing the plugs with ngk sparkplugs, distributor cap/rotor with oem replacement(make sure if you need the hitachi or tec versions), check the sparkplug wires for cracks or white spots(don't replace them if they look ok, unless they're the oem wires the car came with since it was new), replace (or clean) air filter, check main relay for broken joints, run some fuel injector cleaner (gumout regane, seafoam). In addition(since the prementioned is more maintenance you should be doing anyways) i'd also go to honda and see if the recall for ignition switch was completed prior, if not ask if they can complete it with no charge to you as IT IS a recall on the vehicle. If they say no, try a few other dealers....if no luck suffices, buy the part and do it yourself.

PS. p1456 could also call for replacing the EVAP bypass solenoid valve if the gas cap replacement did not turn the light off.

 

[schmiddr2]

The stumble is more like an engine miss. Makes the car feel jerky; like the engine is losing power then gets it right back (within fraction of a second) then loses it again, over and over. The jerkyness is very erratic; as in it has no pattern that I can determine. Shifting is fine, coasting/idle is fine, driving on flat road is fine once I'm up to speed, above about 3K RPM is fine.

Thanks for all the info! I will work through the stuff you mentioned, but since it seems more like a faulty electrical connection than anything else I was hoping someone could just say, "it's the ____", because tracking down loose connections or faulty electronics can be terribly difficult.


Has anyone seen the ignition module solder connections diy? It shows where the box is, what is wrong, and how to repair it. I found it once and can't find it again, and not even sure where I found it!

 

[schmiddr2]

Ordered cap, rotor, and v-power plugs.

Ignition switch has been replaced under the recall years ago.

Air filter has been replaced in past 2 months.

If this doesn't fix it I will move on to relay and injector cleaner.

 

[SKUNKWRKZ]

Just an FYI from what I have read and experienced first hand....just because the ignition switch harness has been replaced in the past two years, does not mean that it's not gone bad again. I bought one from Honda initially, but the one's from Advance Auto (also come with 6 month replacement warranty) are just as well made (if not better than oem). Everything you describe hits home with what I have experienced with my own coupe. Also, If you are going the oem route and not the MSD external coil....I would suggest replacing the coil as well, after you install the items you just ordered. Doing this alleviated the stumble/surging for mine for the past year. The biggest problem I have seen out of the ignition is that if you get it warm enough (100+ degree day, AC on, Stereo and a sustained rpm load for let's say several hours like on a long trip using the cruise) then the ignition will actually cut out and coast down until it stalls (similar to the symptoms of a broken timing belt) and then will not start again for 30 minutes to an hour. It doesn't sound like this has happened to you yet, but I am willing to bet it is coming with the heat we are having this summer so far.

 

[schmiddr2]

I changed the Plugs, cap, and rotor. It seems to have fixed the one problem of the stumble. Not sure how this could have fixed the failure to start and the cutting off. Any opinions on this?

I just wanted to add that I used Lucas injector cleaner also, but it didn't seem to change anything.

About the P1456. I just noticed I do not have the fuel filler flap on my car, so when I take off the gas cap there is just a hole. Might this cause the code and my fuel pump to run even with no key in the ignition?

 

[schmiddr2]

BTW, I found the article I was trying to find. I plan to give it a go soon. http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelay.html

But if this is the problem would the fuel pump run?