a real answer to Throttle Body Spacers...do they work?
- Thread starter FallenAngelHIM
- Start date
FallenAngelHIM
Well-Known Member
i'm not discouraging anyone from using it. hell i bought one for the purpose of finding out the truth.
this post is simply for the sake of knowledge. i was simply trying to decipher the truth behind the claims of a TB spacer with the swirling groves by viewing it from a physics point of a view. using simple principles of physics i was trying to see if what was claimed was possible and apparently it isn't.
it will create a nice sound to your engine but that's caused by turbulence.
if dyno prices didn't cost that much (i'm dead broke) i would further this exploration and do before and afters and see if what i am proposing is true or false.
at the time though with principles of physics alone, TB spacers don't do jack!
this post is simply for the sake of knowledge. i was simply trying to decipher the truth behind the claims of a TB spacer with the swirling groves by viewing it from a physics point of a view. using simple principles of physics i was trying to see if what was claimed was possible and apparently it isn't.
it will create a nice sound to your engine but that's caused by turbulence.
if dyno prices didn't cost that much (i'm dead broke) i would further this exploration and do before and afters and see if what i am proposing is true or false.
at the time though with principles of physics alone, TB spacers don't do jack!
I'm glad to see a writeup on this. Back in the Day i thought seriously about getting a TB Spacer, but it never seemed to quite make sense to add length to the intake and a tight little corkscrew pattern in the flow area. Seemed disrupting to me. I heard from several people that installed them that they gained hp, but they also got a cool little "turbo like" sound that i believe made them think that they had more power because of the new sound. I never could bring myself to pay $80 for a little piece of metal.
To address the AEM V2, i believe that they may have found some gains, they are adding efficiency to the air intake flow, but the $250ish price tag seems a little much for an efficient pipe. Save for Forced induction for better bang-for-your-buck
To address the AEM V2, i believe that they may have found some gains, they are adding efficiency to the air intake flow, but the $250ish price tag seems a little much for an efficient pipe. Save for Forced induction for better bang-for-your-buck
talontsiawd
Well-Known Member
Good write up, and trust me, i do believe it. But i've found that alot of physics majors i know, as well as the two teachers i've had don't seem to understand cars. It almost like they understood the physics too well to look at it like a system. I'm not trying to knock anyone, and i don't know these people obviously, but i'd take it with a grain of salt. Then again, i don't trust even dyno numbers, just 1/4 times.
cg6boi
Well-Known Member
just my .02 when i had a TB spacer on my eclipse gsx it "seemed" to give me more of a low end torque and i never noticed the "whoosh" noise it gives you simply cuz i had the already cool "whoosh" noise from the bov....i miss turbo and this is simply my way of saying that.....damn you n/a
talontsiawd
Well-Known Member
For some reason, i think we might be on the same boatcg6boi said:
I apologize for waking this thread up, but...
Sorry, there is SOO much missinformation here. Doesn't anybody take physics?!
Anyway, lets clear a few things up:
Air and fluid are VERY much related. You can study air movement much easier by studying fluid dynamics. Ofcourse, air is not AS manipulateable as fluid, seeing as it is less dense, but none-the-less, fluid-dynamics is an integral part of understanding air movement.
Next is saying the best way to get more air into the engine is by porting, or making the air tracts wider. Tell your friends to go back to physics class. Porting out, if you are staying NA, can only be done to a certain point, then you DO lose velocity. Why? For the same reason that most NA cars don't need a 3" exhaust. Try blowing a candle out with a regular straw with the opening of the straw a few inches away from the candle. Then, use, say, the cardboard roll from a paper-towel roll, but position your mouth and the opening as best as possible the same distance from the same candle. You may move the same amount of air in one exhale, but the velocity of that air will be VERY different. (MUCH slower in the roll) It is in fact more complicated, but I am purposely trying to oversimplify for the sake of argument.
Atomization of the fuel within the air is very important for power and emissions and for the car to run perfectly. It has more to do however with how the flame travels within the combustion chamber after the spark plug goes off. If all the fuel is on one side of the chamber (will never happen), well, it would be a VERY uneven burn. Spiraling air is nice to have, but it can be sacrificed for velocity and a proper spray pattern from the injector! (VTEC-E opperates by opening one intake valve having the air sprial into the combustion chamber to provide better atomization while injecting less fuel, so the flame front actually reaches all the fuel atoms in an unusually lean, but still safe thanks to design, air/fuel mixture. This is not the case for performance applications where A LOT of air and a LOT of fuel is needed to make peak power. After all, fuel IS power, as they say.)
The gain in low-end torque which was mentioned earlier while the spacer was installed was probably 95% because with the spacer, the intake plenum is enlarged, allowing for a larger reservoir of air for the engine to breathe with at low rpm. The same concept with the R-Crew P.I.M.P. (or power intake manifold plenum) for the K-series. It will not provide more peak power, just better throttle responce at low rpm and better driveability.
Also, boring out the TB is almost always useless. The weekest point in ANY intake tract is usually the intake manifold itself. The TB can usually out-breathe the manifold. When do you need that larger TB? When you want that extra little bit of power to shave those 10th's or even 100th's of a second of your 1/4 mile time. The illusion of more power from a bigger throttle body comes from the fact that suppose you open the throttle 20% on the larger, it would be the same effect as opening the throttle 50% on the smaller one. So you get better responce, and in turn, a FEELING of power.
And last but not least, butt dyno's don't count. Period.
Sorry, there is SOO much missinformation here. Doesn't anybody take physics?!
Anyway, lets clear a few things up:
Air and fluid are VERY much related. You can study air movement much easier by studying fluid dynamics. Ofcourse, air is not AS manipulateable as fluid, seeing as it is less dense, but none-the-less, fluid-dynamics is an integral part of understanding air movement.
Next is saying the best way to get more air into the engine is by porting, or making the air tracts wider. Tell your friends to go back to physics class. Porting out, if you are staying NA, can only be done to a certain point, then you DO lose velocity. Why? For the same reason that most NA cars don't need a 3" exhaust. Try blowing a candle out with a regular straw with the opening of the straw a few inches away from the candle. Then, use, say, the cardboard roll from a paper-towel roll, but position your mouth and the opening as best as possible the same distance from the same candle. You may move the same amount of air in one exhale, but the velocity of that air will be VERY different. (MUCH slower in the roll) It is in fact more complicated, but I am purposely trying to oversimplify for the sake of argument.
Atomization of the fuel within the air is very important for power and emissions and for the car to run perfectly. It has more to do however with how the flame travels within the combustion chamber after the spark plug goes off. If all the fuel is on one side of the chamber (will never happen), well, it would be a VERY uneven burn. Spiraling air is nice to have, but it can be sacrificed for velocity and a proper spray pattern from the injector! (VTEC-E opperates by opening one intake valve having the air sprial into the combustion chamber to provide better atomization while injecting less fuel, so the flame front actually reaches all the fuel atoms in an unusually lean, but still safe thanks to design, air/fuel mixture. This is not the case for performance applications where A LOT of air and a LOT of fuel is needed to make peak power. After all, fuel IS power, as they say.)
The gain in low-end torque which was mentioned earlier while the spacer was installed was probably 95% because with the spacer, the intake plenum is enlarged, allowing for a larger reservoir of air for the engine to breathe with at low rpm. The same concept with the R-Crew P.I.M.P. (or power intake manifold plenum) for the K-series. It will not provide more peak power, just better throttle responce at low rpm and better driveability.
Also, boring out the TB is almost always useless. The weekest point in ANY intake tract is usually the intake manifold itself. The TB can usually out-breathe the manifold. When do you need that larger TB? When you want that extra little bit of power to shave those 10th's or even 100th's of a second of your 1/4 mile time. The illusion of more power from a bigger throttle body comes from the fact that suppose you open the throttle 20% on the larger, it would be the same effect as opening the throttle 50% on the smaller one. So you get better responce, and in turn, a FEELING of power.
And last but not least, butt dyno's don't count. Period.
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ryan s
they dont think it
physics aside...butt dynos do count on the street. what do TB spacers give us on accords?
1. sound
2. a couple extra MPG
3. another mod for your list
would i spend $40-60 for extra sound or maybe 2 extra mpg? butt dyno says no. i dont want to sound turbo'ed when im not
1. sound
2. a couple extra MPG
3. another mod for your list
would i spend $40-60 for extra sound or maybe 2 extra mpg? butt dyno says no. i dont want to sound turbo'ed when im not
ryan s said:physics aside...butt dynos do count on the street. what do TB spacers give us on accords?
1. sound
2. a couple extra MPG
3. another mod for your list
would i spend $40-60 for extra sound or maybe 2 extra mpg? butt dyno says no. i dont want to sound turbo'ed when im not
How does it give you better mileage? And when you're butt can tell me the difference between 130, and 135 hp, I'll maybe take it into consideration
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