HP/liter figures meaningless?

[cvjoint]

It's a fairly well established measuring stick for engine performance. Over the years we have found forced induction powerplants to be in a different category. The noteworthy newcomers have been the S2000 with 120hp/liter all motor, and more recently the Ferrari 458 Italia stole the crown with 127hp/liter. You can look at torque/liter too. Ok whatever.

After talking down on an J32 S2000 swap I happened to stumble over the weight of the J30 for our Accords. 250lbs? really? By that same token my H22 is what over 300lbs? The J has some a nice torque band and works on 87 best to boot.

Let's see some other comparisons. LS7, LS3, the new Ford Coyote and the M3 engine all way within pounds of eachother. The choice is between 505hp, 430hp, 405 hp, and 414 hp, and 470lb/ft torque, 430lb/ft, 390lb/ft and 295lb/ft. Mmmmm no M3 motor thank you. I'll take the much more potent Z06 motor anyday. Or maybe the Ford due to its 87 octane minimum requirement, or maybe the LS3 due to its low price. Either way the M3 is outclassed imo.

I am very inclined to think in terms of HP/lb or TQ/lb instead from now on. Thoughts?

 

[CrosCntryAccord]

pretty sure rotary engines have the highest hp/lb of any engine out there, but i wouldn't want one in my car. And i'd take an m5 any day over any car any us automaker produces in that price range

 

[cvjoint]

Well I'm wasn't claiming anything about the car itself, it's simply an engine comparison.

There are higher hp/lb engines out there compared to the rotaries, like this:
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562069.htm
400hp out of 200lbs. And may I dare say it will last a lot longer doing it's thing than any rotary pushing 400hp and caring a lot less baggage since it's NA.

 

[ryan s]

its one criterion to look at...i think its valid in a list of features, if you will.

i don't believe a lot of people looking for M3s will buy a corvette, just for the engine...they're too different. similarly, i dont foresee a lot of ferarri f355 owners ditching their rides for corvettes...the f355 has 109hp/liter and was the highest in the world at the time.

if you're looking for a racecar to slot into a specific class...then...yeah, something like an s2000 would be a perfect fit in a 2.0L or smaller class with 120hp/liter.

i believe the h22 weighs 250lbs...i recall seeing that in a mag wayyyyyyy back when they swapped one into a civic...or maybe a 4th gen accord...i think it was a civic.

 

[cvjoint]

its one criterion to look at...i think its valid in a list of features, if you will.

i don't believe a lot of people looking for M3s will buy a corvette, just for the engine...they're too different. similarly, i dont foresee a lot of ferarri f355 owners ditching their rides for corvettes...the f355 has 109hp/liter and was the highest in the world at the time.

if you're looking for a racecar to slot into a specific class...then...yeah, something like an s2000 would be a perfect fit in a 2.0L or smaller class with 120hp/liter.

i believe the h22 weighs 250lbs...i recall seeing that in a mag wayyyyyyy back when they swapped one into a civic...or maybe a 4th gen accord...i think it was a civic.

Good point on the racing classes, I suppose that does make for a good case. On the street though, it doesn't matter much. I really hope my H22 only weighs that much, a K20 with transmission and fully dressed is over 400lbs and I know that's lighter than the H22 +f23 transmission combo. In contrast the Ls7 from the Z06 weighs just over 500 fully dressed with trans. That's not that much different from a K20 with turbo, and less than an H22 plus turbo.

I'm not saying anything about the cars from which these come from. However in the M3 I would rather have any of the other engines to be honest. The only loss I see is the high redline, but then again we have gearing we can work with.

I just had to give the nod to Honda V6 blocks and American small blocks. These deliver massive output per lb and I think that should be at the top of the list, hp/liter near the bottom somewhere.