Jh8909
Well-Known Member
this thread got technical
this stuffs not hard, just gotta have lots of patience and know what you are doing.
Dash Tweeter question?
- Thread starter Jh8909
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this stuffs not hard, just gotta have lots of patience and know what you are doing.
imaricer:)
Well-Known Member
I never said it was hard lol
Jh8909
Well-Known Member
well then yes, it can get technical lol. I thought me and ryan were talking esoterically to each other but I guess you understand as well. 
imaricer:)
Well-Known Member
well then yes, it can get technical lol. I thought me and ryan were talking esoterically to each other but I guess you understand as well.
meh a lil bit. im still kinda a n00b.
thanks for posting all this tho guys. im learning
Jh8909
Well-Known Member
the best way to learn about this kinda stuff is hands on. and doing it the wrong way also helps you never make that mistake again
ryan s
they dont think it
my thinking on car setups is the opposite of a home setup...in the car, i want as few point sources (and crossover points) as possible, but in the house, i'd love a line array like on the cover of parts express' new catalogyeah well I didn't origionally strip the paint off so I'm in the clear!
and I am a PPI "fan" if you will. had at least 1 of every series of the pre-dei to dei era.
sure loved me some art series
and you would see a need for 3-way if you've ever sat in a sq demo car that scored above a 90 more than once at competitions.
this car is going to be our demo car, but also my daily so everything is going to be done right.
and I have no idea about that spike in your sound. did you measure it through a computer or did you just hear it? sounds like you need more processing, but if you like what you have and it works, KEEP IT.
and you said you were active, how? amp or headunit? if so what headunit?
i had kicked an idea around for a while, and i know someone who did something similar: since my sub can play 500Hz and down, why not lowpass it at like 350Hz to meet a strong 3" wideband like an h-audio trinity? skip the rattling door panels, lose 2 channels of amplification, dont even worry about a crossover in the vocal region. if only 80~200Hz wasn't so important in the car, it would have been a good idea
my next setup is probably going to be 6.5s under the seat, most likely ported, playing 80 or 100Hz to 300...problem is going to be localization issues, both due to frequency directionality and proximity. then meet up with an audible physics ar3k without a tweeter, since it has a rising response from 16-20k. those will go in the kick panels of a car that comes with kick panels, stock...
well anyway...
the peak in my response i found by thinking about the frequency range (it was mostly with electric guitars) and hitting the eq. theres a chart out there that lists ranges for female vocals, pianos, drums, etc...pretty nifty. (edit: i do have it bookmarked, fantastic Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network )
my headunit is an old premier 860mp...2-way plus sub active.
Jh8909
Well-Known Member
I hear you on how many sources the signal travel through, there is a few ways around that. one, modifications to the headunit itself to shorten the signal path (need schematics to do this)
second would be to spend most of your money on the headunit itself that way you get a good crossover right where the source is started. and then let the amplifier do what it does best, amplify.
I myself am trying a different approach.
I'm not sure on whether I am going to use the ppi deq-230 so if you want it I'll give you a good price on it.
the only reason I may not use it is because its 2 channels in, 2 channels out, so it could go to my 2 channels of RCA that are getting sent to the c&d and then e&f channels by the "parallel input" feature on the amp. but then I wouldn't be able to use all 30 bands of it so it might seem like a waste. but oh well, we'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
I am not down with the extremely high low pass on the sub stage, that will be too much mid-bass from the rear and will make your sub play less efficient causing some of your sq to be lost.
and if you are worried about rattling doors, then you did not deaden properly.
you have me intrigued about the 6.5" under the seats, however seems like a lot of work, for something you could make sound great in the doors by the right processing.
second would be to spend most of your money on the headunit itself that way you get a good crossover right where the source is started. and then let the amplifier do what it does best, amplify.
I myself am trying a different approach.
I'm not sure on whether I am going to use the ppi deq-230 so if you want it I'll give you a good price on it.
the only reason I may not use it is because its 2 channels in, 2 channels out, so it could go to my 2 channels of RCA that are getting sent to the c&d and then e&f channels by the "parallel input" feature on the amp. but then I wouldn't be able to use all 30 bands of it so it might seem like a waste. but oh well, we'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
I am not down with the extremely high low pass on the sub stage, that will be too much mid-bass from the rear and will make your sub play less efficient causing some of your sq to be lost.
and if you are worried about rattling doors, then you did not deaden properly.
you have me intrigued about the 6.5" under the seats, however seems like a lot of work, for something you could make sound great in the doors by the right processing.
ryan s
they dont think it
i'm in the "solid state essque" camp...that if something is designed, competently, then its the same boards, resistors, diodes, caps, etc as the other thing costing 10x as much. the only reason i'd buy a better headunit (clarion DRZ9255) would be to get a 3-way plus sub XO section. the only knocks against my $135 pioneer are the limited eq, cd transport is noisy, and somewhat limited XO selections. aside from the noise it makes that gets amplified and is audible at lower volumes, its a nice unit.
consequently, i'm also against "high end amps sound better than cheap ones"
i'd love the PPI box, but likewise, i'd have to figure out how to properly utilize it. IF i decide to do the 3" widebands up front, then i could pass a fullrange signal through it, split it after the eq, and let the amps handle the crossovers. i'd have to let the amps handle it unless i get a miniDSP or something...
my sub is made to play low and high
shorting rings ftw! if the tweeters that also have shorting rings weren't huge, i'd have them in the car. low distortion and low inductance are simply wonderful (high inductance is akin to a low pass filter...you've heard people say "those subs dont like to play higher than 80Hz"...high inductance, or mH on the spec sheet, is the reason why. but you may already know that if you do, then that's for anyone else who may be following along 
).
well, i've probably rambled enough in your thread so i wont go through all the reasons i'm sick of using the doors for speakers unless you want to discuss it further...let's say, for the sake of brevity, that 6th gen doors are terrible for enclosure use for a bunch of reasons if you haven't already, pop a door panel off and check it out...its pretty depressing...
consequently, i'm also against "high end amps sound better than cheap ones"
i'd love the PPI box, but likewise, i'd have to figure out how to properly utilize it. IF i decide to do the 3" widebands up front, then i could pass a fullrange signal through it, split it after the eq, and let the amps handle the crossovers. i'd have to let the amps handle it unless i get a miniDSP or something...
my sub is made to play low and high
shorting rings ftw! if the tweeters that also have shorting rings weren't huge, i'd have them in the car. low distortion and low inductance are simply wonderful (high inductance is akin to a low pass filter...you've heard people say "those subs dont like to play higher than 80Hz"...high inductance, or mH on the spec sheet, is the reason why. but you may already know that if you do, then that's for anyone else who may be following along ).well, i've probably rambled enough in your thread so i wont go through all the reasons i'm sick of using the doors for speakers
unless you want to discuss it further...let's say, for the sake of brevity, that 6th gen doors are terrible for enclosure use for a bunch of reasons if you haven't already, pop a door panel off and check it out...its pretty depressing...Jh8909
Well-Known Member
the doors are nothing a sheet of aluminum, some rivets, some mdf, and a ton of deadener can't handle.
ryan s
they dont think it
mdf in the doors 
theres just no mass to the inner door metal...adding mass via duct seal with BB pellets in it (seriously) or lead or some kinda bracing is really necessary. regular deadener is for panel resonance, not loading. if you can flex the door with the speaker installed, its not strong enough. mine moves a lot, because i dont care to dump money into this car i'll never get back.
then you get into the plastic door panels "speaker cutout" which is limiting the amount of stuff that can go around the mounting ring to mass load it (and most importantly, limits the size of the mounting ring to well under 7" in diameter). since the lower part of the door panel is "plastic riveted" on right at the exact point of the grille that needs to be trimmed, you run into the issue of reattaching the door panel to the other part.
2 3/4" mounting depth with a 3/4" ring to clear the window and door panel...
interior door panel release rod rattles but needs to stay loose to actuate the door strike...
door mirrors rattle...
and that's why i'm thinking of moving to under the seats. build a 6-sided box, port it, make a few holes through the carpet to meet up with a sheet of wood or metal below, attach it, drop the driver in, drop the seat and bolt it down. aside from getting the measurements right, it should be that easy. the toughest part would be mass loading the seats, but i already have that issue due the sub and midbasses so...
i'm not trying to discourage you, but having owned this car for as long as i have...its a real ***** to get a decent door install. ive made my compromises so its good enough for me.
theres just no mass to the inner door metal...adding mass via duct seal with BB pellets in it (seriously
) or lead or some kinda bracing is really necessary. regular deadener is for panel resonance, not loading. if you can flex the door with the speaker installed, its not strong enough. mine moves a lot, because i dont care to dump money into this car i'll never get back.then you get into the plastic door panels "speaker cutout" which is limiting the amount of stuff that can go around the mounting ring to mass load it (and most importantly, limits the size of the mounting ring to well under 7" in diameter). since the lower part of the door panel is "plastic riveted" on right at the exact point of the grille that needs to be trimmed, you run into the issue of reattaching the door panel to the other part.
2 3/4" mounting depth with a 3/4" ring to clear the window and door panel...
interior door panel release rod rattles but needs to stay loose to actuate the door strike...
door mirrors rattle...
and that's why i'm thinking of moving to under the seats. build a 6-sided box, port it, make a few holes through the carpet to meet up with a sheet of wood or metal below, attach it, drop the driver in, drop the seat and bolt it down. aside from getting the measurements right, it should be that easy. the toughest part would be mass loading the seats, but i already have that issue due the sub and midbasses so...
i'm not trying to discourage you, but having owned this car for as long as i have...its a real ***** to get a decent door install. ive made my compromises so its good enough for me.
