3.5 swap and AWD conversion information and discussion

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TurboAV6

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Hey again everyone, people are saying that a lot of people come on here and start threads and dont finish. For what its worth on my part I started a turbo thread and then I finished it. I used an ebay turbo kit because its cheap and works, I'm not saying my pockets are sooo deep but deep enough and they are only deep because I know how to spend them. I'm done arguing I will no longer respond to anything than what is on this topic because that is what I am hear for. Give me a little credit that even though I may not know on this subject yet, I am still not an idiot. DONE.

Ok sorry. So I believe the first step in this build is getting the motor and building it and seeing where that leaves my "deep pockets" afterwards. So I just found my motor to purchase, it is a 2005 J35A3/L66 out of a Saturn Vue. I have two questions on it before I purchase.

1. The L66 out of the Saturn's, are they VTEC? This may seem stupid however on the listing for the motor it does not specify, nor does it say it on the intake manifold since there is no plastic cover on this one.

2. The motor is going for $700 even with only 73k miles. It is the cheapest motor I have seen yet however I am no expert on buying motors. Is this a good price? and is there some source for Honda motors I may be missing? I check ebay motors, craigslist, shop AOL etc., on the daily looking to score a good price.

Ok After the motor I am going to purchase the transmission which I am currently looking for. However, since I will want to build the tranny for high horsepower applications I am unsure whether it would be better to purchase a transmission thats has some problems since I'm getting it built (This is a much cheaper option) or going ahead with a fully operating one and get it built regardless. Not sure.

Also I know some people are saying that this will be a 10k project however I have estimated that the engine and tranny alone will cost that once they are built. Is 10k thrown out for any specific reason, or is that just pulled outta you know where?

Thanks to those supporters and people with intelligence on here giving real answer. I am starting to really enjoy this forum despite the flaming, it is well worth being able to talk to some people who love these cars as much as I do.
 

retroshark

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personally, i dont see a reason that this couldnt work. i mean, if you got the money, you can do about anything in this world...

but all those variables asside...

if i was going to seriously attempt this kinda project, and when i say seriously, i mean that once done, i wouldnt be racing it on the streets, it would be kept in the garage, and get whored out to every freakin car parts sponsor in the universe, and taken to every show in the western hemisphere.

ok, so with that said, first thing id do is get a beater car, cause the build is going to take upwards of a year.

after that, i would start with buying my motor, and just giving it a general clean up. since the oem ecu should be able to just function with minimal input from anything else other than the engine sensors and a few select other items, i would either go that route, and make a custom harness, that covered purely the basic needs to physically start up the engine, OR, i would get an aem EMS. ems seems the simplist option imo.

so with the motor bought, and assuming its all up to stock specs, id sit it asside.

i would then order teh transmission, the driveshafts and the axles. id also get the entier brake setup for the rear of the car, as well as the fronts. of course, this would come from the donor vehicle, and ultimately, i think most of it would get scrapped in the end, since new custom parts most likely will need to be fabricated in order to run a rear differential suspension setup and driveline.

so, with all those parts bought, i would literally, tear the car appart. start saving those zip lock bags, cause your gonna need to keep track of every nut, bolt, screw, pin, stud and clip that you take off. i would start inside the car, and work outwards. remove the entire interior. remove the wiring, remove anything that is not welded to the chassis. doors included.

from there, i would start removing all the exterior parts. that being said, the motor should already be out, and either left asside as a "just in case" motor, or sold for cash to pay off bills.

when the car was totally stripped naked like a ferrari in africa, it would be time to start really going at that chassis, and spot welding every single part that can be strenthened. i would even consider welding in some kind of a frame into the car, to support it and prevent it from buckling, when you almost certainly will have to cut into the undercarriage of the car to make a new channel for the drivetrain.

that being said, you might as well split the entire car in half, along the under side, making room for a AWD transmission setup, and rear diff. most liekly, you will be able to get away with having a slightly raised floor pan, to accomodate the big transmission and rear diff, but thats just an estimation.

so once test fitted, and the distance between the motor, and the transmission has been properly measured, so that both will line up perfectly, it is time to weld on your transmission mounts, and probably the new motor mounts youll need to fabricate to align the motor to perfectly mate with the transmission.

when that part is done, and you have already set up a nice strait channel through the underside of the car, to make room for the driveshaft, you can start ordering your new custom or modified driveshaft. as well as that, id get to work on the rear suspension, cause i could see that being a pain. in my mind, what would most likely happen, is the entire rear underside of the car, including the fender wells, and shock towers would need to be totally rebuilt, almost certainly in a similar fashion to the donor vehicle of the suspension parts and tranny parts.

once youve got the suspension all figured out, and made the new trunk floor pan to accomodate the rear diff etc etc, idget the mounts for that all figured out. once thats done, i guess it would be a sensible time to get the front axles figured out. now this is where i personally see a problem -

our engines, j series included, are oriented a certain way, and i have a suspicion that the engine bay, and location of the front wheels may be off, compared to the transmission front wheel output shafts would be.... just a thought...

but providing that went smoothly, you would tentatively have the entire drivetrain figured out. PHEW!

now, after all that, i would literally stick the wheels on, and again, go through the car, and start bracing it for the added stress of being driven from the rear, and not biased totally to the front. bare in mind, these cars are built, wheel placement included, to work best for a FWD system. if you are putting too much power to the rear, the spacing between the front set, and rear set of wheels may be tooo short, making the car pop a wheelie at any more than normal acceleration... again, just a thought.

so, now that your car is free of popping wheelies, and wont twist itself into a mess of steel and aluminum under heavy load, i guess it would be a good time to get some wiring done. simce youve already spent the 2 grand on the aem ems unit and all the stuff youd need, id pretty much just make a totally custom harness, leaving off anything that is not 100% essential.

no detail really needed there, since wiring is wiring, and personally, i think that would be the easiest part of all.

so, now that your chassis drives, and the engine runs and youve custom ordered your custom spring rate coilovers and such, you can start putting stuff back in the car. first off, id check, and double check, that the steering mechanism still operated properly, since you are going to be moving a different ammount of weight on the front than its designed for, and you also need to compensate for the fact that the front wheels will now be getting less power than the rears will. so, that being said, you need to check that your steering isnt gonna be all floppy and loose, or totally stiff, and undriveable.

that being accomplished, id move on to getting the rest of the wiring done. all the lights, locks, gadgets and stuff that you may want to make the car a little more comfortable while driving in and out of your garage, and on and off of your trailer (which i forgot to mention youll most likely need to buy)

so, with wiring done, body back together, and everything working well, id get to work custom fitting the interior back together. if your cars a coupe, should be easy, as youll just run it with no rear seats. if its a sedan - good luck with that.

once thats done, make sure that the seat brackets are getting the seats to an adequate height to be safe, and i guess at that point, get some racing seats.

now, pretty muhc put it all back together, and get about every aftermarket body brace, strut bar, sway bar, and other bar that you can find, since the chassis will react very oddly to being rear wheel driven. as well as that, might as well put in a roll cage, since that may make the car a little stiffer... make it a 10 point cage to be safe.

now that its all done, get it running on just stock power, and start doing some real testing, on a track of course since the car will be so far from street legal, its not even gonna be an option to drive on streets in the United states any more.

once the car is 100% driveable, and wont implode upon taking a turn fast, i guess it could be time to pull out the motor, start on building it, whilst the rest of the car gets paint touched up, some fancy body kit to win all the show judges hearts, and some other cool show stopping gear... you know, like purple velvet jdm style VIP roll cage padding etc etc etc...

once your motor is built for some forced induction, get the rest of the setup done, probably modifying all the brakes again to handle the new weight and new power. replace the stock clutch with an aftermarket one appropriate for the engine power, and also, invest in new custom made driveshafts, axles, transmission gears and synchros, as well as a rear diff, and other goodies.

get some better wheels/tires to put that new power to the ground.

get teh car all setup, and running so it can be put on a dyno and tuned.

make sure you explain to the tuner that its not FWD, and that it is in fact rear biased AWD, so they dont strap you to the wrong dyno... youlll need a dynojet AWD dont forget!

so, with that taken care of, you should be ready to go!
 

nyknick1015

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ok retroshark... i didnt want to quote ur whole thread but i just have a couple things to suggest...

TurboV6, you might get lucky with this build because the tranny is the same as the as the CRV, horizontally mounted engine where the tranny AWD transfer case sticks right under with out having to do much frame work (Note: like i told dre, ONCE YOU CUT INTO THAT FIREWALL, YOUR ****ED, you will never pass inspection again, hope your in a state that doesnt do inspections!!)

continuing on, you might have luck and if ur right about the J35 motor, i wouldnt even bother with buying the motor yet. A standard J series motor like the j30, or even 32 will bolt up fine... use your 3.0 and save the 700 for where its needed... focus on the engine later and you can swap it when needed. And ur boosted so ur fine HP wise....

like i said before I DO GREATLY SUGGEST that you focus on that rear subframe first... if you can get that mounted and moving then ur golden!! if you can move the car drive around normally with the subframe installed (even with out the transaxle attached), then you are making progress...

look into rear subframes from CARS, (not trucks or vans)that are AWD so if u were to fit a gas tank, those would be the most appropriate to fit... and READ ALOT!!! I MEAN ALOT!!! i know people who go 2 lib and stay there for days... go to the auto store and read through every haynes manual for awd cars and compare them to the accord... find a subframe where you can adapt the accords struts to it or struts you can adapt to the accord's tophats
 
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jbisselwhiteac6

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Ignore the flames from these people if you think you can do it just do it I'm sure if that was the idea people had in mine when it came to new ideas nothing new would ever appear personally I think you can do if you have the money for it and if it works then you will be a pioneer and these very same people will look at you in aww so go for it seriously

Actually you might as well do a rwd conversion if you plan on spending money like this it will be basically the same thing but probaly more worth it
 
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talontsiawd

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Alot of people are taking real advice as "flaming" or "hating". People are stating the truth. You need to realize that this is a project that you should basically find a shell for. You will basically tear the car down completely. I will be a bit blunt here and say that it's a very stupid idea to take a working car to do this. Go buy a theft recovery shell with little to no damage with absolutly nothing left. Then do this, sell you car and you will be slightly better off financially. This is the truth, don't get mad anybody.

I want to make a point that may be somewhat off topic or atleast may not be "positive". Almost everyone who does something new either can do it themselves or knows how to do it themselves and has someone else do it. If you don't know how to do it, you can't trust throwing your money into a project like this.

I am familiar with AWD cars and even conversions based on AWD cars that were originally FWD cars are almost always very extensive projects (actually all cars I personally know of). Doing this with unknowns may leave you with a shell and a bunch of expensive parts.


I'm not here to say it can't work. You could swap an STI or Evo drivetrain in. It's possible, I am sure of it, even though it has never happened. But it isn't worth it. My advice would be to put the money into the motor. I have been in 400hp FWD cars, it is not nearly as fun as 400hp rwd cars and especially AWD cars. You are not only dealing with the fact that it's alot of work, secondly, your drivetrain just may not hold up well. You may end up having to go alot deeper than swapping the drivetrain out, which is about as deep as you can go.

Make a sick 3.5/3.6/3.XX/4.xx swap and have fun with it. I truly think you will have far less fun with your plan unless you could really care less when it gets done. Or if it gets done. You will have a great car, buy a nice used AWD car for the cost it would be to convert and call it a day. If you had fabrication skills, I would approach this thread differently.
 

HondaLuver83

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The engines are Vtec. Why are you looking just for the saturn vue. The acura mdx i believe has the same engine. you should really abort this project before you get in over your head. Why dont you drop a 3.5L in ur car.
 
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kevinbo03

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I know everyone has said allot, I'll just share my 2 cents.

The chassis would have to be replaced, as you seem to grasp. At that point, you are essentially building a car. I know people who have/are rebuilding cars from pieces. It will take months, if not years. If you've got unlimited money to spend, it will go faster. But at that rate, you might as well get something better to work with.

I would do what others have said, do a nice swap. It will still be very prestigious and advantageous, But wont waste your time.
 

truonghthe

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I am a V6 guy, I say its possible for the AWD conversion if you got the money,time,knowledge,tools. For those who against your idead, I would recomene you take some pics and prove that your project are going so they can just shut up for awhile, I mean like Dani (Dinzdale40) he had pics in his progress of work so no one say that he bs. I would start first taking pics of your turbo and the Dyno number, I mean you can afford a turbo then I don't see why you can't afford a dyno run. Just post those thing up and more people will have faith in you. I would say the J35-36 had been done (I believe Mikey had put a video up here in the past of 1 TL using an MDX motor) but it invole alot of time, I like the idea that you have a unique car. But if I was you, I would just save those money and get a 09 TL and boost that sh*t all the way. Well that just my opinion, its your time,money,knowledge. I hope you success with this conversion, since my family own J series motors that doens't mean I hate 4 banger or being a dick to any one.
 

NVA-AV6

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Hi guys, hows it going......

Ok, V6 AWD accord.

Is it possible, yes.
Is it going to be a fabrication nightmare, yes.

There is one major problem though, up to the 2010 TL-S there has only been ATs that are AWD and the ATs will not hold any type of real TQ, I know from first hand experience where I have destroyed 2 ATs with a built J35, so unless you are going to baby the thing all the time :rolleye: you need to start with a 2010TL-S engine and tranny, now once these start hitting the junk yards this becomes a whole lot more feasable, but will still be very time consuming and expensive.
 
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