Newbie here

[Rusty Accord]

Just thought I'd introduce myself here. Sorry if this is long, but stuff happens. My name is Bob, and I own a "Rusty Accord". Well actually I've got 3 in the stable, but 1 is a 5th gen (97 LX w/5speed). Back in November of 2014 I bought my first Honda, and its a 2000 Accord LX AT 2.3L car. I bought it for my wife (she thought I bought it for myself, and was giving her my 92 Geo Prizm), and she's been very happy with it. Once we got the warning lights in the dash turned off (SRS and ABS), next up (about 4 months later) was replacing the water pump (started leaking out the weep hole). So in I go, but I bought an Aisin water pump kit from Rock Auto, that included timing and balance shaft belts, along with their respective tensioners and the pump. Now keep in mind I'd never done a timing belt on a Honda before, let alone any engine work on a Honda. I've rebuilt other engines, and changed timing belts before, (but that was quite a few years ago), and as a fabricator, rebuilt several rusty hulks over the years, but nothing on a Honda. For my first time, it took me 4.5 hours (spec sheet said it should take 3.75 hours), so I didn't feel too bad about being a little slow doing it all. I've also replaced the rear brake lines, and fuel lines, due to rust out (I live in the salt belt afterall). But since then, it's been a fairly maintenance free car to own. Last summer (2016) it got a cap and rotor, wires and plugs (NGK iridiums), as I didn't know how many miles were on them (same applied to the timing belts). We also took it to North Texas and back twice without any issues (running on the Interstate with the cruise set at 80, and the AC on). Or 2 trips of 2600 miles each.

Anyway, after having it for a year and a couple of months, I decided I wanted 1 for myself (this was mid March 2016), as it would be a really nice upgrade from the 92 Geo Prizm. While I was looking for a 6th Gen, I found a 97 Accord LX 5 speed car in my price range, so I bought it. Drove it home, only to have it not start/run the next day (PO thought the pump was dieing). So I put a new Denso pump in it. Didn't fix it. Went thru the entire check list in the FSM, only to find out I didn't have power to the injectors (it would run on starting fluid, and had the correct amount of fuel pressure). I ran a wire over to the injector resistor pack, and fed it 12 volts and it fired right up. It only took me a month to figure that out with all the testing I did. While it was down, it got a timing belt kit tossed at it, along with cap, rotor, wires, and plugs (due to not knowing when it was last done). This past summer it also got a cat back exhaust, since it was a little thin when I bought it.

Then in October, a friend of mine told me about a Honda he saw on his way to work (I go in the other direction, so I didn't see it) that was about 1.5 miles from my house. I went over and looked at it. Turned out to be the car I wanted back in March when I bought the 97. Its a 99 LX 5 speed car. It had a price of 350 on the cracked windshield, along with "needs a motor" and a phone number. Called the number, but the seller was at dinner with family from out of town. We met the next afternoon, and I bought it. Turned out that the crank bolt had come loose, and the timing had skipped a tooth because the harmonic balancer had moved/walked on the crank. Ordered up a harmonic balancer (w/key), and re-set the timing. The harmonic balancer had the key groove widened up by about a 1/2 inch, so I knew it was toast. It fired right up and ran smooth (it would barely run with the timing off, but it did run). So, I ordered up a timing belt kit for it, and then changed it too. I was mainly wanting to hear if there were any "expensive" noises going on before I had too much money into it (figured worse came to worse I could part it out to myself). Then I also thru in a set of iridium plugs (no wires or cap yet) along with a valve cover gasket, as it was leaking oil around it. also found that a power steering line had rusted thru and was leaking big time by the steering rack. So, a little time spent on e-bay got me a complete return line set up for less than a hundred bucks. Getting the old line/fitting out of the box was a royal PIA, but I kept at it and got it out. The new line and fitting went in like it was supposed to, and no leaks. However, I found out afterward that I used the wrong power steering fluid, so it'll have to get changed. Since then I've found a couple of more items that I'm going to need to address, but I'll have some time once the weather warms up.

Anyway, I came here mainly looking for info on the AT, as I've heard it can be "problematic", and my wife still has hers. At this point in time, I'm looking at doing a fluid drain and re-fill, until it decides to act up. I've talked to some people, and we're of the believe that maybe someone used some Dextron in those cars that have had early trans failures (instead of using Honda ATF fluid only). What's the general consensus here? I understand the owners manual says you can use Dextron, BUT, it must be replaced with Honda fluid ASAP (drain and fill 3 times to make sure it's gone). Thanks.

 

[Blazinqwickly]

Looks like you have some fun projects on your hands there and welcome to your first Hondas btw, I really like you are tackling the maintenance first, that is a great way to start.

As far as the auto-tragic transmissions what you hear is pretty true about them and you should deff just use Honda ATF fluid in one, but just because you use that fluid does not mean it may not have problems later down the road. Pretty sure it was a design flaw in the way the auto was built because before my wife and I bought a 5 speed one my mother had a automatic one brand new and it had failed by 60k, thankfully it got replaced by Honda forking out at the time, not every one may be so lucky.

That is crazy the crank bolt was lose and the keyway grove widened so much and was still holding on, was there any damage to the crank where the key fit with the harmonic balancer ? I know you said the harmonic balancer had widen about half a inch and that's just nuts to think about hahaha.

 

[Rusty Accord]

Looks like you have some fun projects on your hands there and welcome to your first Hondas btw, I really like you are tackling the maintenance first, that is a great way to start.

As far as the auto-tragic transmissions what you hear is pretty true about them and you should deff just use Honda ATF fluid in one, but just because you use that fluid does not mean it may not have problems later down the road. Pretty sure it was a design flaw in the way the auto was built because before my wife and I bought a 5 speed one my mother had a automatic one brand new and it had failed by 60k, thankfully it got replaced by Honda forking out at the time, not every one may be so lucky.

That is crazy the crank bolt was lose and the keyway grove widened so much and was still holding on, was there any damage to the crank where the key fit with the harmonic balancer ? I know you said the harmonic balancer had widen about half a inch and that's just nuts to think about hahaha.

Thanks for the welcome.
Well, I learned years ago that having a nice ride sitting dead alongside the road sucks big time. So, I'd rather have a crappy looking ride that's mechanically sound first. I've found that most PO's don't bother with maintenance, as they'd rather drive the crap out of a vehicle rather than fix it. I've bought some very cheap cars and trucks that way over the years.

My guess is that the crank bolt had loosened up (probably not tightened to spec at some point), and the harmonic balancer was just rocking back and forth on the keyway. It finally got loose enough, that the key moved out of the lower pulley, and changed the timing. At the same time, it threw the belts off. I did drag the car home on a tow rope, as it wouldn't hardly move on it's own. But yes, it was crazy seeing that, but it turned out to be an easy fix. No damage to the crank at all, but the balancer and the key were toast.

Well, all of the Hondas I have here all have about the same mileage (235K), and I don't have any idea of when the AT was last serviced, or if it was ever replaced. I haven't checked into that part yet. I do know that it was well taken care of though, as it looks like it was owned by an older person. Most people like that normally take it somewhere to be serviced. I say older person, as all 4 corners of the body have been rubbed on something that didn't move (bad eyesight) and the paint was scraped off those areas. Fortunately they're plastic so it's not that big of deal to me. Besides, my wife parks wherever she feels like, so it'll get more bumps and bruises from the other idiots in the parking lots.
I've heard that the trans in these give up anywhere from 40K miles, to 140K miles, and some even last longer. I've seen on here that 140K to 160K is the normal expected, but even that isn't written in stone. And the V6 model is known to die even sooner. But I find it hard to believe that Honda would build a trans that's known to fail like that, AND keep it in production for 5 years. It doesn't make sense, and surely would have opened them up to mega lawsuits.
I owned a 97 S-10 pick up with a 4L60E trans, and it's known that those go 140K, then it's rebuild time. On mine, it went at 141K, so it was right on target for failure. 1400 bucks later it was good to go. The replaced parts on the repair sheet read like a grocery list at what they replaced in it. It was 2 pages long. :O But, I bought her car before I even knew that those transmissions were troublesome. Had I known, I probably would have bought the Toyota Camry I was looking at. But even still, I'm/we're happy with our purchase, and the car is really a good car, and it's nice and quiet inside, looks contemporary, has no rattles, and does everything we've asked of it. Not to mention everything works, and it gets decent fuel mileage on the highway with the cruise and AC on.

 

[Connie]

IIRC there was a class action lawsuit regarding the automatic transmissions in the US on the 6th generation Honda Accords. No help for Canadians, but didn't Honda have to reimburse thousands of people in the mid 2000s because of transmission failures when the lawsuit went through?

 

[trident]

Welcome!

I'm not fully aware of that issues with the 6th gen Accords.

 

[Blazinqwickly]

IIRC there was a class action lawsuit regarding the automatic transmissions in the US on the 6th generation Honda Accords. No help for Canadians, but didn't Honda have to reimburse thousands of people in the mid 2000s because of transmission failures when the lawsuit went through?

Not entirely sure of that lawsuit toward Honda for that, it would not surprise me considering they did not have such a failure in the past with their golden generation of 90's cars they made.

I bet with a little finger walking you could find what actually ended up happening with the whole ordeal, because if I remember correctly that should be covered under the "Lemon law" to protect people from getting a car that is known to fail early and commonly.

I completely agree with Rusty that I would rather have a mechanically sound car that had more dents then a golf ball, then drive a pretty car that leaves me stranded on the side of the freeway for dead.

 

[Connie]

Not entirely sure of that lawsuit toward Honda for that, it would not surprise me considering they did not have such a failure in the past with their golden generation of 90's cars they made.

I bet with a little finger walking you could find what actually ended up happening with the whole ordeal, because if I remember correctly that should be covered under the "Lemon law" to protect people from getting a car that is known to fail early and commonly.

I completely agree with Rusty that I would rather have a mechanically sound car that had more dents then a golf ball, then drive a pretty car that leaves me stranded on the side of the freeway for dead.

That's the point isn't it?
Reliable transportation first.
Once that's been achieved, playtime