GOD Vs. Science

[VitoHGrind]

Nope... Catholic.

um.. that is Christian. Catholicism is a sect of the Christian church, a "religion" not a belief.

Great post, and thank you for sharing it with us. I think Christians and non-Christians could learn from it, and hopefully it peaks interest in learning more about the Christian faith.
...
It will always be an ongoing debate, until the end of time, but I certainly can appreciate the various viewpoints on the subject, it keeps me honest.

As a Christian, I want to know what non-believers/scientists are saying, I need to know about what their argument is based on, so that when I am refuting points they are bringing up, I have MY facts straight to support my argument.

I agree. I love to read and understand the arguments that people make against Christianity or any faith for that matter. It allows me to be armed against them in a situation just such as what was posted here. Like now I really want to see and maybe even read Golden Compass. If its something that is promoting atheism and is going to be holding the attention of our children, I want to have answers for their questions; reasons, arguments, and proof (as best a faith based construct can muster) against the thoughts and concepts presented.

Ah nextome your post reminds me of a question I always had. I'm a sikh and I know very little about the christian faith and have always been puzzled when christians say jesus came to earth and died for your sins... I always thought it was because at the time the jewish people killed him for claiming to be the son of God and they didn't believe it??

If someone could clear that up for me it would be great, I've always been confused about this and never really had a proper opportunity to ask lol

First, forgive my ignorance, but what is a sikh? Second, you are right that Jesus was killed by the Jews because they did not believe He was the son of God. However, Jesus was sent by God, just for that reason. It was pre-ordained, pre-destined, & pre-fated that Jesus be betrayed by one of His own disciples, beaten, bruised, and belittled, then finally crucified. His ultimate purpose was to serve as a perfect blood sacrifice atoning for all our sins.

There is more to the story, but I don't want to clog up the boards w/ a madd long post. I can tho..

 

[ryan s]

Nope... Catholic.

you are christian...that is the umbrella term for people who believe in jesus as savior. catholicism, lutheranism, calvanism, etc are just denominations.

Ah nextome your post reminds me of a question I always had. I'm a sikh and I know very little about the christian faith and have always been puzzled when christians say jesus came to earth and died for your sins... I always thought it was because at the time the jewish people killed him for claiming to be the son of God and they didn't believe it??

If someone could clear that up for me it would be great, I've always been confused about this and never really had a proper opportunity to ask lol

at the time of jesus, israel was under the control of the romans. some people took the old testament prophesies of a "savior" to mean an earthly savior. some jews saw jesus as a worldy king, there to save them from the control of rome.

when jesus stated he was the son of god, it became apparent the the revolution would not happen. to the "old school" jews, claiming to be God was the highest form of transgression. they even had a name for God, because they did not feel worthy of saying his name. if you get a chance to look through the old testament of the bible, you'll see LORD in all caps. this was what the jews used to refer to God so that they would not be risking blasphemy, know as YHWH.

anyway...yes, jesus was killed because he claimed to be the son of God. although false evidence was brought against him, there was no true evidence of a crime. that is why pontius pilate (the local governor) washed his hands and said "let his blood be not on my hands" and caved into the crowds wish of crucifying him. he didnt want a revolt on his plate, as he was looking to move up in the ranks.

so yes, jesus died innocently by the romans according to roman law, which was de facto at the time.

and as an aside...the sign that was written and nailed to the cross above jesus said "the king of the jews" but people protested it. they wanted it to say "this man claimed to be the king of the jews." pilate said "what is written is written" and it stayed.

 

[VitoHGrind]

^^^ well there you have it. Nexttome pretty much filled in the rest of the gap. Jesus served as the bridge between the "Law" of the old testament (disconnected from God, atonement for sin by sacrifice) and the "New Covenant" of the new testament (atonement for sin by repentance, true connection w/ God)

 

[00Accord4cyl]

^^ohh i love talking about predestination..what a fun topic..I am a Calvinist if anybody knows what that is..anywho.have been studying Romans for the past few weeks...if anybody wants a good read i would recommend studying that..but pre-warning the stuff in there is really intense..

i will def have more to talk about..but my exam is starting in like 10 min so i gotta go haha

But i do have a link..if anybody ever has time on their hands i would def recommend listening to this guy..he is the speaker at a thing called Crossroads in knoxville, which is like a college youth group type thing..500 students a week..but he has all the recordings and the ones on Romans are AMAZING..good stuff and the guy adds lots of humor
http://crossroad.fefc.com/

 

[ryan s]

ahh so you believe in double-predestination then...

 

[5spdcoupe]

Ah i see i see, thanks for clearing that up guys I've been confused about it for a long time.

Umm I'm sure you guys have all seen/heard of sikhs before but just didn't know the name, hmm kind of a hard question describing who we are haha, I'll let my old friend wikipedia do my work for me once again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh

 

[00Accord4cyl]

ahh so you believe in double-predestination then...

you could say that..i didn't even know much about predestination until about a year or so ago..i have a Methodist background, so current Methodists obviously don't support this at all..but anyways..i started to go threw Romans and go to that bible study and well..as you can see i now believe in predestination..very hard stuff to understand, but to me it makes sense..who knows..i could talk about this stuff all day

Starting to read a few books by MacArthur...Charismatic chaos and Fools Gold..not sure if you have heard of them

 

[ryan s]

basically to break it down...

calvin believed that every person was destined to go to either heaven or hell when they were conceived. nothing they did in life could change it.

luther believed that God saved everybody, and that the way to hell is through unbelief. the ONLY unforgivable sin is unbelief.

 

[5spdcoupe]

calvin believed that every person was destined to go to either heaven or hell when they were conceived. nothing they did in life could change it.

Hmm but what would be the point in that? Interesting though, I've never heard of this viewpoint before and have a few questions lol. Wouldn't it then give you the excuse to do whatever you desire without any regard for morals? If you know your destination you would be free to do whatever you want, kill people you dont like etc

And what is the basis for you either going to hell or heaven when you are concieved, how is it decided where a person will go?

 

[CrosCntryAccord]

well i dont believe in god, or religion. personal beliefs from growing up around catholics, nothing against them, i've just never had a reason to need faith in my life. its a choice thing in my opinion. i've come to conclusions about why people choose to believe in what they believe in and to me it doesn't make sense. most philosophers were/are athiest because faith is un-provable and non-logical. the tip of my belief iceberg would use the quote "there are no athiests in fox-holes"

just posting my beliefs not trying to offend anyone