Fellow F series..

[Quicksilvercord]

I wish I wasn't in college.

 

[Sonnick]

Do not rev the stock valvetrain over 7k..not only that, but I'm pretty sure the pistons/rods wouldn't like it either..Stage 2 puts out about 5% more power than Stage 1 according to Bisi.

Stage 2 does not require a valvetrain upgrade. However, when I get my head port and polished, I will be getting it upgraded. It's not a need, just a want, and to be more on the safe side. Bisi is probably the most knowledgeable guy in terms of the F series, so I trust him.

As far as the tuning, I don't know about the Apexi Neo. I am going Greddy e-manage because I am sticking OBD2. He suggested the OBD1 conversion, but I am not going to do that yet, if I do. Hope this helps.

 

[theaccordian]

Do not rev the stock valvetrain over 7k

pontless, power drops off after 6500 anyway.

 

[theskytraveler]

Ok, I just wanted to say thank you to Sonnick for throwin down the info on this thread. I’m very excited to hear about the F23. I read too many times that I would need to do a swap and what not. I use to have a first gen Acura Integra with the DOHC. But I love my Accord and honestly cant see myself parting with it any time soon.

Now I’ve read the whole thread and I have several questions. (pardon the noob-ness of the questions but I have got to ask).

1: I am about to start on the engine work with my accord. I know the traditional route is to do the bolt-on: I/H/E. But after seeing this thread I rather or want to start with the internals of my engine. Though I do see that these Stage 1 or 2 cams are suggested by Bisi after the I/H/E bolt ons. Should I get the bolt ons first or could I start with the internals??

2. Seeing that the Stage 2 cams yield a 5% increase in power sounds good to me. The fact that the idle would be lopey, doesn’t bother me either (I was surrounded by friends in HS and college that worked on Mustangs, Cameros, and their Trucks and I got use to the lopey idle). The question is on the comment by TheAccordian. Is it true that the power drops off at 6500 and that it would be pointless to rev to 7000? Should I go with the Stage 1 anyway since it is a daily driver?

3. Also somewhere on the thread: BadgerType was explaining his rant on the 250 border and cliff noted the F23 parts: F22 valvetrain, K20 pistons, F23 rods. Now I know this is just an example but I’ve read about the K20 pistons and what not. Would this be the ideal set up for the money?

4. Also on Bisi’s site they sell the Bisimoto Spec Race Pistons with compressions ranging from 10.5:1 to 17.0:1. They accommodate up to 3mm oversize valves. The gains should be way better than competitor shelf pistons. For the 4 cylinder they cost $890 shipped. For the money should I go with just the K20 pistons or should I really consider the bisimoto race pistons with their Stage 1 or 2 cams and an F22 valvetrain??

I’m very excited about this and I’m down for the long haul to do the build. I am keeping my Accord for a very long time so this is right up my alley!!!

Thanks again for the info

Peace,

 

[BadgerType]

1. you could start with internals, but you would need to get the air to and through them

2. stg 1 would do just fine for a dd and somthing tht you dont plan on makin 300 hp

3. hi compression k20 pistons, f22 stg1 valve train, pnp head and IM is fine for a nice engine cheap engine build

4. thts up to you

 

[BlkCurrantKord]

pontless, power drops off after 6500 anyway.

But if by changing the profile on the cam and the ability for it to rev that high from the upgraded valve train components you can shift power elsewhere in the powerband.

Stock the F23 might not make anything past that, even with bolt ons, but who's to say it doesnt with additional internal upgrades.

 

[theaccordian]

But if by changing the profile on the cam and the ability for it to rev that high from the upgraded valve train components you can shift power elsewhere in the powerband.

Stock the F23 might not make anything past that, even with bolt ons, but who's to say it doesnt with additional internal upgrades.

I think SOHC and the long stroke will limit revs and power up top.

 

[Egi7]

I think SOHC and the long stroke will limit revs and power up top.

Not absolutely true. The number of cams does not justify the power band or revs. Port flow, cam definition and compression are the factors of rev limits and powerband. Ofcourse a longer stroke will allow you to reach VE (volumetric efficency) earlier, but that doesnt mean that the 97mm stroke wont shine in moderately higher revs. The f23 from the factory wasent designed to be a performance motor , which is why most people loose sight of its potential. Its low compression and weak cam profile, give people the illusion that it can never run with an H or B series. Long strokes coupled with High compression are 1/4 mile beasts. The f23 and f22 blocks are the biggest untapped resource in honda, but people are starting to catch on it. The ONLY thing the DOHC motors have over SOHC, is the ability to separately tune the intake and exhaust cam.

-Mike

 

[BlkCurrantKord]

Another thing is Rod/stroke ratio. The F23's isn't the best b/c it has small/narrow rod journals. There are ways around this by offset grinding the crank, swapping to a different crank, etc.

 

[Sonnick]

^^ Good point Mike..

Skytraveler..the 5% power increase was the difference from Stage 1 to Stage 2..which means a total of about 20-25% power increase from stock..however, I would recommend 150% the bolt ons first. You will not see the full potential of the cam without the bolt ons..However, if you do the internals/cam first, when you do get the bolt ons, they will make much more of a power increase than if you just did it on a stock motor..