J32A2 + 6MT swap in my '01 F23/H23 5MT chassis

619rcr · Aug 21, 2021

okay, so I had bought a set of innovative mounts for my 00 prelude, in expectation that I would be doing that swap after I got the motor rebuilt. As most know the 6th gen accord can run H22/H23 on the stock mounts. Really the only change is the driver side engine block mount. Following so far... So, today I was looking at the stock bracket again and held up the prelude innovative mount next to the bolt holes. The stock bracket has a tab that extends up a few inches. The prelude does not. Basically all I did is bend the tab on top about 90 degrees. Then I temp installed the prelude j adapter mount with 2 bolts. The lower bolt holes are slightly off, but think that can be fixed by elongating the holes.

619rcr · Aug 21, 2021

The driver side adapter is not as close to the prelude with the bolt hole placement. I could weld the bracket to the car. But, then again the cls uses a different mount setup bolted to the lower sub-frame... Why innovative never made a j swap mount kit for the 4cyl accord is beyond me..

619rcr · Aug 21, 2021

Couple shots of the donor. Removed the bumper and extended nose piece to make room to operate...

619rcr · Aug 21, 2021

s/c was removed couple weeks ago

Bense · Aug 21, 2021

619rcr said:
Why innovative never made a j swap mount kit for the 4cyl accord is beyond me..

View attachment 7917

The innovative mounts are flawed. I tried to reach out to them to point out their flaws and how they were causing the transmissions to fail prematurely.

Here are 3 pictures that show various bosses on the J-series FWD 6MT. The first two pictures are of the transmission housing. The 3rd picture is of the clutch housing.

These 4 bosses that I spray painted green are used in various applications. I have not yet seen a transmission housing come from Honda that has all 4 of these holes drilled and tapped. All of these are tapped M12x1.25.
The 2003-2007 Accord and 2004-2008 TL (base and Type S) the 3rd boss to the right tapped with a small M8x1.25 thread. A small bracket bolts to it that holds one of the vaccuum lines for the rear mount in place. I have not yet had to drill out that thread and run a M12x1.25 tap, so I don't know if its possible. -- At the very least, this still provides 3 options for the upper transmission mount.
Note: 2003 CL-S 6MT transmission does not have an upper transmission mount.

Here are the 4 bosses on the lower transmission housing. These are M10x1.25. Every transmission housing variant that I have seen has all 4 of these bosses drilled and tapped.

Here is the front view of the older style clutch housings;
Left: 2003 CL-S 6MT
Right: 2003-2007 Accord V6 6MT / 2004-2006 TL 6MT

The 3 upper holes that I circled are M10x1.25. The bosses are there in the casting for the 2003-2007 Accord / 2004-2006 TL clutch housing, however they are not drilled / tapped. In this picture I have them drilled and tapped.

Bense · Aug 22, 2021

I'm still not sure if I understand why you're wanting to even bother with the innovative mounts at all.

My thinking is that you could compare a CL-S 6MT subframe to the Accord subframe (whether 6g Accord V6, or 6g Accord 4cyl) and if it's possible, to just make whatever modifications are necessary to the Accord subframe so that you can use the CL-S mounts.

After you do that, mount everything in the chassis that you can. Then for the bracket / engine mount that connects to the passenger side frame rail, poke holes in a nice piece of cardboard and bolt that to your engine or your 4cyl chassis. Then mark where you need to drill your holes. Then transfer the cardboard template / markings onto plate of steel.

Who do you think operates / designs the mounts at Innovative? It's not like it's an engineer that's doing F.E.A. on the part. If you get it sorted out, the only thing stopping you from making a batch of these brackets that you then sell, is you!

619rcr · Aug 22, 2021

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm not set on using innovative stuff, just that I had it laying around. Obviously i'm going to use as much of the cls parts as possible. Its likely a unbolt, transfer and re-bolt process for the front half of the subframe. Still getting parts removed from the block, in preparation to pull.

Bense · Aug 22, 2021

FWIW, back when I did my F2D in my '94 hatch, -- JDM F20B with my custom, close-ratio D trans -- the only mount that I had to make was the engine "timing belt" mount.

The transmission mount, rear "t-bracket", axles, shift linkage, was all stock D-series.

Also, I guess I should have mentioned this earlier. I still have the full 2003 CL-S 6MT swap that I got in January 2017. The engine and subframe is still at my friends shop. -- I've several boxes of brand new, unopened parts that I'd purchased for the J32A2 -- seals, gasket set, mounts, axles, timing belt / water pump kit, accessory belts. It's got aftermarket stainless headers (I forget the brand) and an underdrive pulley. I've got the engine harnesses, ECU, 6g Accord V6 instrument cluster. -- And, of course, the CL-S 6MT transmission.

So, that's part of the reason why I'm so interested in seeing what you end up doing to get this setup working

619rcr · Aug 23, 2021

Sounds good. Motor is almost out. I took a long break yesterday and left it on 3 mounts.

Here's a shot of the superior cls trans mount that bolts to the driver side subframe similar to the AT 6cyl accord. The 4cyl doesn't have the holes.

I've got piles of parts too. p2r is probably tired of me... lol

Bense · Aug 23, 2021

I went back and dug up my old pics from when I bought the 2003 CL-S 6MT subframe from the junkyard in March/April 2017. My recollection of what I did here is a bit fuzzy / clouded by the stress that I went through with the breakup that I had with my ex a few weeks after I took these pictures of the subframe / crossmember.

For clarification, I will be using the following terms while referring to these parts specifically
50200-S3M-A01 Beam, Rear - I will be referring to this as the "crossmember"
50250-S3M-A00 Beam, Front - I will be referring to this as the "subframe"

The 6g Accord, has these two pieces that bolt together to form the complete, front subframe. "front subframe" is kind of ambiguous because the official Honda parts term for this is "Beam, Front". So the front subframe has both a front piece and rear piece. Unlike the 7g Accord / 3g TL subframe which can be seen here in my post on Acurazine
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-...between-ua6-ua7-subframe-814056/#post16648080
https://www.v6performance.net/threads/would-it-work-weight-reduction.210218/page-3#post-2615022

I *THINK* that what I did was pull the subframe + crossmember from the 2003 CL-S 6MT. Then, after realizing that the CL-S front subframe was bent due to the CL-S being in a front end collision, I think I picked up the front subframe from a 6g Accord V6 and bolted it onto the 2003 CL-S 6MT crossmember before carting the complete subframe+crossmember to the checkout at the junkyard.

Hopefully my investigative efforts here will provide some insight for others in regards to what is needed for this swap. Picture showing the 2003 CL-S 6MT front subframe along with this additional area of the subframe that doesn't appear to be present on 6g Accord V6 subframe. I think this is where the damper connects to the transmission?

Picture of what I think is a 6g Accord V6 subframe. Note the 4 holes for the lower transmission mount. I wonder if the 6g Accord 4cyl has these same flat spots/ indentations where the holes are drilled?