cleansleeper's Turbo G23 build

[Ilovemy6thgen]

shoot me an offer.

 

[gt58]

subscribed, stoked to see this build!!

 

[Valet]

shoot me an offer.

PM'd

subscribed, stoked to see this build!!

It won't dissapoint

 

[JDM_Rook]

I have a stock F23 crank if you want it, and you're not far from me so maybe we could meet up. It was stored on it's side on a wooden work bench for about 8 months, but I've read that could be bad for them. There is no rust on it, though, and it looks in good condition.

 

[AFAccord]

Please, if there is anything that I have overlooked, or you have any suggestions let me know! I'm not as experienced as many of you and still have a lot to learn. So I'm positive I'm missing some stuff somewhere.

Here's my take...

The overall goal: Turbocharged G23 (F23 block + H22 head). Make the best G23 that has ever been made. Powerful, reliable, and very nice to look at. 450 wheel horsepower, at least, for the high boost setting. Reliably around 350.

In my mind, reliability and longevity are two separate entities, that at some point cross paths.

Reliability - comes from quality parts and attention to detail. This is what prevents your car from randomly breaking down due to gee-wiz mistakes or parts that are destined to fail due to their inherent quality or design.

Longevity - resistance to wear and tear. A motor that is built for more power is assembled with greater clearances at the cost of longevity.

Seeing other builds, I believe this potent frakenstein hasn't seen its full potential, and I'm going to attempt to exploit it. ~9-10:1 + Twin Scroll GT35.

I'm no expert, but for sub 500hp I think the GT35 is going to be unnecessarily big. I think a GT3076R might be a better option, or check with Full-Race about one of their Borg Warner hybrids.

-Bored to 86.5mm (0.5mm over, iron walls so no need for sleeves).

Stay 86mm. For your power goal, you'll have to hone/bore the cylinders open a tiny bit to get the proper piston to wall clearance, which should be enough to ensure they're straight. You'll appreciate the extra cylinder material when you make the big numbers. This is why I didn't go any higher than I did.

-New OEM crank

Like everyone else said, used crank is fine. Ensure there is no serious rust, pitting, or scoring on the journals, check the journals for roundness, taper, and have the crank balanced. No need to go crazy here with knife-edging or weight reduction. I'd recommend not trying to resurface or micro polish the crank. There's already a hardened surface on the journals, and those processes are far from precise.

-Crower rods

Not trying to endorse anyone here, but one company out there offers taller rods and pistons with a shorter compression height which would be good insurance having a better r/s ratio when you're revving the hell out of the motor.

-Wiseco custom forged pistons, 9-10:1

See rod notes. Keep the compression up there and have the tuner watch the ignition timing and you'll be golden.

-ACL bearings

Be sure to check your clearances. Measure AND plastigage them to be sure.

-ARP main bolts and fasteners

I don't recommend these unless you really want to get into some serious machining of the block, shimming your oil pump and generally throwing a monkey wrench at your bottom end clearances.

-Exhaust and intake valves bored 0.5-1mm over.

I don't really think this is necessary with the H22 head. You already have larger valves than the F, and better geometry to begin with.

-Custom intake manifold/plenum

Again, not necessary and may complicate things, but it'll look pretty.

-AEM fuel rail

See intake manifold note.

-Skunk2 throttle body

Save some money and potentially some headaches and get an Omni or PB Tuning, or any of the other half a dozen brands that make larger OE style TB's.

-Custom Crane cams, minimal overlap to cater to forced induction

Going out on a limb here, but there are probably some cheaper/better OTS options here. Most mild N/A cams do very well with boost, and you have several OE setups to choose from as well.

-AEM cam gears

Ugh...

-Crower intake and exhaust valves

See valve notes above.

-Crower dual valve springs/titanium retainers

Affinity for Crower?

*Forced Induction*
-Garrett GT35 twin scroll, dual ball bearing turbocharger

See turbo note above.

-Custom twin scroll, twin wastegate turbo manifold.

Are twins necessary for your goals?

-Large intercooler, impartial to manufacturer

Stay away from Godspeed/eBay, but you don't have to get raped for a Precision model either. Go-Autoworks, just sayin...

-3 inch mandrel bent charge pipes

Necessary for your goals? Bigger isn't always better here.

-Separate oil cooler

Be sure to run thermostat to bypass the cooler while the engine is warming up. There are some nifty sandwich plates that have them built-in.

-Walbro 255lph fuel pump

A nice pump is no good if your power drops to 8volts because of poor grounds/tiny wire. Look into a fuel pump relay like what Xenocron offers or build your own.

-AEM Boost Controller

Save yourself $100 and buy the same thing without the AEM sticker. They're all MAC solenoids.

Overall, it sounds like you're prepared to build an 800+whp G23! If you're not looking for that much power, I'd save yourself a TON of cash and reconsider your parts list. Good luck!!

 

[Valet]

here's my take...




In my mind, reliability and longevity are two separate entities, that at some point cross paths.

Reliability - comes from quality parts and attention to detail. This is what prevents your car from randomly breaking down due to gee-wiz mistakes or parts that are destined to fail due to their inherent quality or design.

Longevity - resistance to wear and tear. A motor that is built for more power is assembled with greater clearances at the cost of longevity.

My goal is to hit that nail right on the head! I'm still in the middle of research for this build.. So nothing is really set in stone and a lot is still pretty blurry.

i'm no expert, but for sub 500hp i think the gt35 is going to be unnecessarily big. I think a gt3076r might be a better option, or check with full-race about one of their borg warner hybrids.

If I use a gt30 class, I would be really hitting a wall at ~550. With the turbo being twin scroll it will still spin a gt35 class without being under huge boost, and still leave room for more gains before hitting another wall ~750-800. I am looking into Borg Warner.. When the turbo decision comes closer I'm going to go more in depth looking at them all before I got spending the $1,200+ for just a turbo.

stay 86mm. For your power goal, you'll have to hone/bore the cylinders open a tiny bit to get the proper piston to wall clearance, which should be enough to ensure they're straight. You'll appreciate the extra cylinder material when you make the big numbers. This is why i didn't go any higher than i did.

This is also a big consideration. I'm beginning to lean more towards just doing exactly as you said. Just to keep all of the wall for insurance.

like everyone else said, used crank is fine. Ensure there is no serious rust, pitting, or scoring on the journals, check the journals for roundness, taper, and have the crank balanced. No need to go crazy here with knife-edging or weight reduction. I'd recommend not trying to resurface or micro polish the crank. There's already a hardened surface on the journals, and those processes are far from precise.

Found a good deal on a lightly used one

not trying to endorse anyone here, but one company out there offers taller rods and pistons with a shorter compression height which would be good insurance having a better r/s ratio when you're revving the hell out of the motor.

What company is that? Sounds like something to look into.

see rod notes. Keep the compression up there and have the tuner watch the ignition timing and you'll be golden.

Was planning on keeping it closer to 10:1 to keep boost low.

be sure to check your clearances. Measure and plastigage them to be sure.

No clearance is going undouble-checked in this build

i don't recommend these unless you really want to get into some serious machining of the block, shimming your oil pump and generally throwing a monkey wrench at your bottom end clearances.

Why do you say that? I thought they would do nothing except add the insurance of their strength.

i don't really think this is necessary with the h22 head. You already have larger valves than the f, and better geometry to begin with.

It's not necessary. But I'd like to say I did this

again, not necessary and may complicate things, but it'll look pretty.

I'm going to school for automotive engineering. So I'm hoping within the next 2-3 years I'll have the knowledge to make everything work together perfectly. That's a reason I'm listing it. Also to say I did it

see intake manifold note.

I want the ability to go to big big numbers. It certainly won't be a hinderance, so why not.

save some money and potentially some headaches and get an omni or pb tuning, or any of the other half a dozen brands that make larger oe style tb's.

Eh. I am planning on this being a pretty showcase engine bay as well haha those Skunk2 TB's are mighty nice to look at.

going out on a limb here, but there are probably some cheaper/better ots options here. Most mild n/a cams do very well with boost, and you have several oe setups to choose from as well.

The problem is the overlaps that the N/A cams get as you go up. That's why I'll go with at least an off the shelf turbo cam. And there aren't many made above a stage 1 class so custom may be necessary.

ugh...


See valve notes above.



Affinity for crower?


See turbo note above.

I'm going to bore the valves.. Soooo haha

What's wrong with Crower? For valves, springs/retainers would going with say Bisi, Skunk, Supertech be any better? Figured they were all about the same.

are twins necessary for your goals?

They're necessary for twin scroll...

stay away from godspeed/ebay, but you don't have to get raped for a precision model either. Go-autoworks, just sayin...

Thanks

necessary for your goals? Bigger isn't always better here.

Like I said, some of these things are still a little blurry and not looked into in depth at this point. But will be in the near future.

be sure to run thermostat to bypass the cooler while the engine is warming up. There are some nifty sandwich plates that have them built-in.

Thinking the same thing

a nice pump is no good if your power drops to 8volts because of poor grounds/tiny wire. Look into a fuel pump relay like what xenocron offers or build your own.

Will do!

save yourself $100 and buy the same thing without the aem sticker. They're all mac solenoids.

Probably another good money saver. But then everything won't be AEM...

overall, it sounds like you're prepared to build an 800+whp g23! If you're not looking for that much power, i'd save yourself a ton of cash and reconsider your parts list. Good luck!!

I have thought that I may end up shooting for that. I just don't want your typical EK dragster that has zero refinement and is only good in the 1/4. I'd rather over build a track/show car with 450-600, if I get ballsy, that is actually drive able and doesn't require an auto with a stall and transbrake.

Thanks a lot for the replies! It means a lot coming from the guy who's build and attention to detail inspired me!

 

[lenz973]

Good luck with the build. I definitely want to see how everything turns out with this.

 

[Valet]

The block has been purchased

 

[gt58]

 

[Valet]

Those of you without power steering...

How much of a difference does it really make on these cars?

Those without AC. I imagine its something you can very easily get by without. Is this correct?