Question about building a 400hp+ F23

[rexload]

And none of those guys have 400whp, despite having spent tons of cash, experimenting with different setups, and some having great personal tuning knowledge.

When you ask for help, it isn't very polite to try and correct first person who posts trying to help you, especially since that person DOES drive a turbo'd f23 and you don't.

In this day and age 600hp+ streetable 4cylinder engines are nothing new, so I really don't see the big deal about making 400.
So if all those guys cannot get 400, they either are happy with what they are making or there is a weak link(s) in their setup that doesn't allow them to make more power. This is exactly why I created this thread, I have a feeling the stock head will not be able to make that much. But I wanted to hear some opinions on this because the stock F22 head/cam for example supports well over 400hp.

I corrected the person because it was suggested to run 1000 injectors when 650 injectors are enough for my power goals. Yeah, it is better to have bigger injectors than not big enough but I just don't like misinformation. It was also said that a built engine will not last which makes no sense at all to me.

So what if I don't drive a "turbo'd F23", that doesn't make me less of a person than somebody who drives an F23.
I have a 1900lbs Civic with a bone stock F22 making over 300hp at 12psi with a $1,500 turbo setup, Ive been beating on it for over a year and it still runs strong.

exactly why i posted those links

its cool to have goals but they have to be realistic.

What exactly makes this an unrealistic goal? I'm not being a smartass, just trying to understand what you are talking about.

 

[rexload]

stinker came close, 360 something if my memory is still intact to the wheels, so 400 in the engine. but even he would say it is not a DD.

IF you wanted to keep stock head and obd2, then you would have to have a massive turbo to push the air into the constricted headports. to max out the psi would be very high, 5-6k which means not much overall power. basically not fun for the street, only dyno's.

i would read/search about all these topics on this site and revise your goals. a small t25 turbo on our cars would be fun and reliable.

it can be done, but a crapload of money

I see your point. BUT....

1. Holset variable geometry turbochargers = feels like a t25 at 2000rpm and is capable of 600+hp at high rpm

2. I don't want to keep OBD2, I just want to put it on the car once a year for inspection. If the F23 head really flows that poorly, then perhaps I could do an H22 head swap. I am guessing this would still pass emissions with an OBD2 H22 ECU and stock cams.


EDIT: Btw a T25 is a VERY BAD choice for a 2.3L engine.
For a D16 Civic it would work fine, but on an F23 your powerband would be like 2000-4500rpm with that turbo, you can't make any power on it, and the intake air temperature will be INSANE. Been there done that...an improperly sized turbo = your charge piping will be as hot as your exhaust manifold (!!!)... such high temps will destroy an engine very fast

 

[Wildman]

I guess my question is does the stock F23 head flow well enough to make some good numbers without running a ridiculous amount of boost....?

You said you don't want to run high boost

5. Why do you think a built block will not last? There are plenty of 600-1000hp Hondas running fine.

I would be interested to know where is that you see 600-1000hp 4cylinders as daily drivers on a regular basis. In fact, I'd be interested in seeing any 600-1000 hp 4cylinder daily drivers (and I mean actual numbers, not some idiot's claim of 600whp just because he's running NAWSSSSSSS)

I have a 1900lbs Civic with a bone stock F22 making over 300hp at 12psi with a $1,500 turbo setup, Ive been beating on it for over a year and it still runs strong

Exactly. You're running 12 psi (if you're credible) and you're still only making 300hp. You want 400 hp "without running a ridiculous amount of boost". Hence unrealistic goals. Oh, and accords weight around ~3300 pounds.

Sorry, but you come across like an ***. You've got 5 posts. You didn't seem to do any searching before starting a new thread. Then you claim that 600hp out of an everyday 4banger is no problem. It's hard to take you seriously.

 

[ryan s]

In this day and age 600hp+ streetable 4cylinder engines are nothing new, so I really don't see the big deal about making 400.
So if all those guys cannot get 400, they either are happy with what they are making or there is a weak link(s) in their setup that doesn't allow them to make more power. This is exactly why I created this thread, I have a feeling the stock head will not be able to make that much. But I wanted to hear some opinions on this because the stock F22 head/cam for example supports well over 400hp.

I corrected the person because it was suggested to run 1000 injectors when 650 injectors are enough for my power goals. Yeah, it is better to have bigger injectors than not big enough but I just don't like misinformation. It was also said that a built engine will not last which makes no sense at all to me.

So what if I don't drive a "turbo'd F23", that doesn't make me less of a person than somebody who drives an F23.
I have a 1900lbs Civic with a bone stock F22 making over 300hp at 12psi with a $1,500 turbo setup, Ive been beating on it for over a year and it still runs strong.



What exactly makes this an unrealistic goal? I'm not being a smartass, just trying to understand what you are talking about.

i dont know if its mentioned in shahid's thread (ihazsnail) but hes on his second or third rebuild.

its not about "why shouldn't f23s make xxx horespower?" but rather "no one has made more than 400, and not for a lack of trying."

youre on the right track, though...the f23 head doesn't flow as much as an h22/23. the "g23" is what you'd be after and a few people have done the headswap (though i can't think of anyone who turbo'd it off hand )...

and i believe the f22bx heads are a bit different, but that's about where my knowledge on heads tapers off...

 

[Wildman]

Emmino has also blown an engine, and I can't remember the dude's name (I think his real name was Jack? Was at the Pittsburgh meet years ago, red coupe w/ kit) who was tuned on EMS blew his engine at least once as well.

I wish you the best in your endeavors, and would be interested in following your build thread if you ever go through with this, it's just a bit more complicated than you seem to think. Either that or hundreds of people that I've seen try in the past 6+ years on multiple forums were all retarded and spending money at tuners that was a waste.

Dre probably has the best shot at breaking that barrier whenever his build is finished but he's also not running an f23 anymore

 

[rexload]

You said you don't want to run high boost



I would be interested to know where is that you see 600-1000hp 4cylinders as daily drivers on a regular basis. In fact, I'd be interested in seeing any 600-1000 hp 4cylinder daily drivers (and I mean actual numbers, not some idiot's claim of 600whp just because he's running NAWSSSSSSS)



Exactly. You're running 12 psi (if you're credible) and you're still only making 300hp. You want 400 hp "without running a ridiculous amount of boost". Hence unrealistic goals. Oh, and accords weight around ~3300 pounds.

Sorry, but you come across like an ***. You've got 5 posts. You didn't seem to do any searching before starting a new thread. Then you claim that 600hp out of an everyday 4banger is no problem. It's hard to take you seriously.

600hp is no problem out of a Honda F/H/K and some domestics too, but not every 4banger.

I am making OVER 300hp at 12psi on a pretty small turbo. With a bigger turbo and headwork I don't see why I wouldn't be in the 350-400 range with everything else left the way it is now.

i dont know if its mentioned in shahid's thread (ihazsnail) but hes on his second or third rebuild.

its not about "why shouldn't f23s make xxx horespower?" but rather "no one has made more than 400, and not for a lack of trying."

youre on the right track, though...the f23 head doesn't flow as much as an h22/23. the "g23" is what you'd be after and a few people have done the headswap (though i can't think of anyone who turbo'd it off hand )...

and i believe the f22bx heads are a bit different, but that's about where my knowledge on heads tapers off...

Yes an H22/F23 hybrid "G23", I see them on Honda-tech every once in while, they make good numbers.

Here is another idea, the stock F22 head supports over 400hp, maybe I could swap a whole F22 into a CG and convert it to OBD2 for inspection running the F23A5 ecu (i think that one had no vtec)

Emmino has also blown an engine, and I can't remember the dude's name (I think his real name was Jack? Was at the Pittsburgh meet years ago, red coupe w/ kit) who was tuned on EMS blew his engine at least once as well.

I wish you the best in your endeavors, and would be interested in following your build thread if you ever go through with this, it's just a bit more complicated than you seem to think. Either that or hundreds of people that I've seen try in the past 6+ years on multiple forums were all retarded and spending money at tuners that was a waste.

Dre probably has the best shot at breaking that barrier whenever his build is finished but he's also not running an f23 anymore

Thanks. I'm 99% sure I will be buying a CG so hopefully this happens soon.

 

[ryan s]

Yes an H22/F23 hybrid "G23", I see them on Honda-tech every once in while, they make good numbers.

Here is another idea, the stock F22 head supports over 400hp, maybe I could swap a whole F22 into a CG and convert it to OBD2 for inspection running the F23A5 ecu (i think that one had no vtec)

ken (NASOHC) has/had? an f22 in his car, but he's an N/A dude.

 

[almightyfargoth]

In this day and age 600hp+ streetable 4cylinder engines are nothing new

If you're referring to the fact that a car like an Evo just happens to have a 4-cylinder engine and someone could spend less money getting that hp by putting on a bigger turbo and some other tweaking than someone outright buying a Corvette and strapping on a supercharger and then compare either of those situations to someone taking a car like a Honda Accord and building a 600+ hp engine under the hood is nonsense.

You're insane sir, the difference is gigantic. Especially in time and money.

Those kinds of cars are brought to a car show, they won't pull up next to you in traffic.

Like the next time you see an Evo on the street, guess what? It's going to have about 300hp. It's not going to have 1000 and ready to make treads marks a mile long. Some college kid liked the wing on the back and he'll be paying it off for years. There's reality for you.

Just remember, you did say "streetable" so don't go back and say "oh I meant like a dragged 4 cylinder."

*edit* ok so you had already replied with that comment about specific 4 cylinder engines, takes half the fun out of the absurdity of this..

 

[Erik123456789]

1. You don't need 1000ccs to run 400hp
2. You don't need to run 20psi for 400hp
3. I wouldn't want to run it with an OBD2 ECU
4. 400hp has been done on a stock F22 block
5. Why do you think a built block will not last? There are plenty of 600-1000hp Hondas running fine.

1. Either way your GOING to have to get bigger injectors, 1000cc is just to be safe because you WILL be running higher boost if you wanna break the 400whp mark with the f23.

2. Your never gonna get close to 400whp with a stock block unless you plan on getting a decent amount of boost.

3. there are aem systems specifically made for obd2 engines so you can tune them and avoid converting them to obd1

4. 400hp has been done a stock f22 block, for how long? you specifically mentioned you want a DAILY DRIVER, 400whp on a stock block will NOT last you long.

5. Pistons alone does NOT mean your block is built, those 600-800whp hondas you speak of are FULLY built.

and lastly, your welcome.

 

[BlkCurrantKord]

The n/a F23 guys are trying to get around 300cfm from the stock head so that it flows properly for high compression. I'd imagine you'd probably need something similar to reach 400hp. The only limit to what the F23's can do is the intake and head, the block can hold the power without sleeving it. Upgraded pistons, rods, headstuds, is more than enough to help you reach 400hp.

Personally...I think a well ported head and a GT28xxx turbo would be plent to reach 400hp on the F23. But thats just what I'd do. You don't have to keep the stock cam, or the immobilizer, to keep it legal. Just keep a cat on it, no CEL's, and well tuned.


And sorry..but 1000cc's is overkill for 400hp.


Local friend daily drives his 560whp turbo hatch. Stock cams, stock head, built bottom end, GSR motor. He'll be making almost 100hp more this summer w/ a new turbo, fuel pump, and top mount.